Discussion:
To cover or not to Cover
(too old to reply)
Bazooka-Joe
2005-03-29 20:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs? My 5-piece has varying philophies.
The drummer and I want to do a cover. We grew up going to concerts all
the time and hearing a cover was ALWAYS part of the show. Even with
some of the bigger, more prominant national acts we went to see, there
always existed a cover or two. For the drummer though it's like a
tribute to the music he likes, listens to and enjoys. I want to do
them simply because they're fun and I think every rock set, especially
by a relatively unknown band such as us, should have one. As an
attender, I always appreciated having a song or two in the set that I
did know, and that everyone could grove to and sing along with. The
bass player is just a very laid back easy going guy and will play
anything the group decides on. Though if he had his druthers I think
we'd cover a Rush tune. The lead singer sees the business end
(marketability, audience participation, and energy levels all
contribute to the success of a show and your sales numbers). But our
keyboard player (an integral part of our sound and business) is totally
opposed to it. He believes playing a cover is akin to saying, "we're
incapable of writing another good original, so we thought we'd play
someone else's music." To the rest of us, he just doesn't get it. Is
this idealogy common? I was flabbergasted when I first heard it. And
he's passionate about it too. I happen to know the opinions of the
others and he's agreed to concede if he's out numbered, which he is.
Anyone else come across this?
John Wheaton
2005-03-29 21:09:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
Even if you`re in a band that mainly does original tunes, covers are VERY
important. If you remember back when Van Halen 1st broke out, it was the
cover that first got airplay. It IS and easier way for radio program
directors to figure out what your band is if you have a few covers that you
do your way. Do them in the style of your band, so it sounds like it`s an
original, just like VH did with "You Really Got Me".

See ya,
John
DK
2005-03-29 21:20:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Wheaton
Even if you`re in a band that mainly does original tunes, covers are VERY
important.
i'll echo that. covers are often the highlights of any show by anyone.
David
2005-03-30 00:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by DK
Post by John Wheaton
Even if you`re in a band that mainly does original tunes, covers are
VERY
Post by John Wheaton
important.
i'll echo that. covers are often the highlights of any show by anyone.
I agree. One of the best shows I've ever seen was Kiss, New Year's Eve 1985.
They did Whole Lotta Love and Won't Get Fooled Again.
AJ
2005-03-29 21:24:28 UTC
Permalink
In my area, you won't get a gig unless you ARE a cover band. :(

We play 80% covers, 20% originals. What we do is play covers either
slightly or very different from the originals.

We do Hayseed Dixie's bluegrass version of 'You Shook Me All Night
Long', and a hard rock version of The Monkees 'Last Train To
Clarksville'.

Do yourself a favor and listen to 'Punk Chartbusters Vol 2' or 'Punk
Goes Pop'. There are some very creative covers in there.


On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:09:04 -0800, "John Wheaton"
Post by John Wheaton
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
Even if you`re in a band that mainly does original tunes, covers are VERY
important. If you remember back when Van Halen 1st broke out, it was the
cover that first got airplay. It IS and easier way for radio program
directors to figure out what your band is if you have a few covers that you
do your way. Do them in the style of your band, so it sounds like it`s an
original, just like VH did with "You Really Got Me".
See ya,
John
Strat O. Kaster
2005-03-29 21:32:25 UTC
Permalink
I'll echo that sentiment......in my area, all original bands don't work, I
know, I tried it in the last band I was in.......lasted all of 6
months.....we sneak them in on the crowd now.......always waiting until
they're over to mention that it's an original song.....people around the
midwest find change hard to swallow. I always try to put forth the argument,
"Did you know Free Bird before the first time you heard it"???.....sigh....
Post by AJ
In my area, you won't get a gig unless you ARE a cover band. :(
We play 80% covers, 20% originals. What we do is play covers either
slightly or very different from the originals.
We do Hayseed Dixie's bluegrass version of 'You Shook Me All Night
Long', and a hard rock version of The Monkees 'Last Train To
Clarksville'.
Do yourself a favor and listen to 'Punk Chartbusters Vol 2' or 'Punk
Goes Pop'. There are some very creative covers in there.
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:09:04 -0800, "John Wheaton"
Post by John Wheaton
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
Even if you`re in a band that mainly does original tunes, covers are VERY
important. If you remember back when Van Halen 1st broke out, it was the
cover that first got airplay. It IS and easier way for radio program
directors to figure out what your band is if you have a few covers that you
do your way. Do them in the style of your band, so it sounds like it`s an
original, just like VH did with "You Really Got Me".
See ya,
John
howldog
2005-03-30 14:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Strat O. Kaster
I'll echo that sentiment......in my area, all original bands don't work, I
know, I tried it in the last band I was in.......
my experience as well.

even putting out a CD didnt help us locally (the local music press
killed us anyway, that didnt help)

but towards the end, with no work coming in, and us only in steady
rotation in the originals-only showcase clubs, where you play one 30
minute set along with 4 or 5 other bands, and make no money, it got
old.

I suggested to the others that maybe it might be a better idea to try
and add more covers to our list, and go outside the in-town hip and
trendy clubs, the blue-collar clubs, and play mostly covers as well as
our favorite originals. At least they would pay us. And we could sort
of play the covers in our own way, doesnt have to be just like the
record, altho you do pretty much have to keep the lyrics and the vocal
melody the same.. otherwise people cant tell what you are doing.

My ex-bandmates didnt wanna do it. They wanted to keep pushing the
originals, and I guess play the showcase clubs, I guess they thought
of themselves as "artists" and they didnt wanna compromise that or
whatever. Fuck it. I just wanted to make some cash for my family.

Our party broke up.
Guncho
2005-03-30 17:14:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Strat O. Kaster
I'll echo that sentiment......in my area, all original bands don't work, I
know, I tried it in the last band I was in.......lasted all of 6
months.....we sneak them in on the crowd now.......always waiting until
they're over to mention that it's an original song.....people around the
midwest find change hard to swallow. I always try to put forth the argument,
"Did you know Free Bird before the first time you heard
it"???.....sigh....
I guess that's why there aren't many good bands from the midwest.

In a major city in Canada you can't get a gig if you're a cover band.

Also no offense but cover bands who think "sneaking" a few originals in
is going to get them anywhere is just sad. Not saying you do, but I
know bands who do.

Chris
howldog
2005-03-30 19:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guncho
Also no offense but cover bands who think "sneaking" a few originals in
is going to get them anywhere is just sad.
let me know when you "get somewhere".
mickey
2005-03-29 21:19:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
My band started out playing cover tunes...before I showed up that is. I
don't like to play other people's music, I like creating things with a
group, all the musicians participating in creating a sound.

And that's why we do 'mostly' originals now. In a set of 20 songs we do
two covers...which we've made our own.

That's what your keyboard player hasn't figured out --it's not enough to
cover a song...you take a song that means something to you, you put your
energies into it, it comes out as something different.

For example, we do Pale Blue Eyes, the Velvet Underground song...one of
the most beautiful songs of all the time, if you ask me. The way they
do...well, we do a great version too--but it doesn't sound at all like
the way they did it.

There's a difference between playing in a cover band and playing a cover.

Oh yeah, and covers are lots of fun to do too. You get to let loose a
bit.

Oh yeah yeah...there's another thing that fun to do-- take a recognized
riff from a song, twist it around, put a different melody on there, make
it your own. It's lots of fun...and you get that audience recognition
factor that only a well known song gets. My band has a problem with that
one--for some reason it bothers them that one of our songs has the same
chord progression as Gloria...
Alex Butcher
2005-03-29 22:32:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by mickey
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
[snip]
Post by mickey
And that's why we do 'mostly' originals now. In a set of 20 songs we do
two covers...which we've made our own.
That's what your keyboard player hasn't figured out --it's not enough to
cover a song...you take a song that means something to you, you put your
energies into it, it comes out as something different.
[snip]
Post by mickey
There's a difference between playing in a cover band and playing a cover.
Oh yeah, and covers are lots of fun to do too. You get to let loose a
bit.
Well said; that covers my own opinions pretty succinctly. The only thing
I'd add is that there's another approach to covers and that's to
absolutely nail it. Personally, I prefer it when a band remakes a cover
in their own style, though.

Best Regards,
Alex.
--
Alex Butcher Brainbench MVP for Internet Security: www.brainbench.com
Bristol, UK Need reliable and secure network systems?
PGP/GnuPG ID:0x271fd950 <http://www.assursys.com/>
Grip
2005-03-30 15:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Yep! Make it your own. Nothing more "BORING" than seeing a cover band that
sounds like a "juke box". Apart from a "tribute" band of course, that's
their purpose after all. I'm sure we all used to take pride in nailing our
cover tunes note for note at some time or another. In my early days, it was
a competition, and we would go see other local bands judging them solely on
their ability to do so. Then thankfully that wore off from jamming for
jamming's sake. You start to be creative when you explore outside the note
for note constraints. Some covers have "signature" licks that must be used,
or are just fun to use, but I always look at a cover now as "how can I make
it mine" or just have fun with it.
Post by Alex Butcher
Post by mickey
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
[snip]
Post by mickey
And that's why we do 'mostly' originals now. In a set of 20 songs we do
two covers...which we've made our own.
That's what your keyboard player hasn't figured out --it's not enough to
cover a song...you take a song that means something to you, you put your
energies into it, it comes out as something different.
[snip]
Post by mickey
There's a difference between playing in a cover band and playing a cover.
Oh yeah, and covers are lots of fun to do too. You get to let loose a
bit.
Well said; that covers my own opinions pretty succinctly. The only thing
I'd add is that there's another approach to covers and that's to
absolutely nail it. Personally, I prefer it when a band remakes a cover
in their own style, though.
Best Regards,
Alex.
--
Alex Butcher Brainbench MVP for Internet Security: www.brainbench.com
Bristol, UK Need reliable and secure network systems?
PGP/GnuPG ID:0x271fd950 <http://www.assursys.com/>
RichCI
2005-03-29 22:01:08 UTC
Permalink
Personally, if you're not in a cover band where you try to play the
songs as closely as the original verions, I think the best way to do
covers in a mainly original band is to play the covers like they are
your own songs. That is, play the song closely to the original
arrangement, but play it in your style; this is especially effective if
you play a song that is not in the style of your band. To echo what
was mentioned earlier, Van Halen played a lot of covers on their
albums, but they were not songs that you would expect a band like them
to play and they played them in their own style - think of "Dancing in
the Street."
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs? My 5-piece has varying philophies.
The drummer and I want to do a cover. We grew up going to concerts all
the time and hearing a cover was ALWAYS part of the show. Even with
some of the bigger, more prominant national acts we went to see, there
always existed a cover or two. For the drummer though it's like a
tribute to the music he likes, listens to and enjoys. I want to do
them simply because they're fun and I think every rock set,
especially
Post by Bazooka-Joe
by a relatively unknown band such as us, should have one. As an
attender, I always appreciated having a song or two in the set that I
did know, and that everyone could grove to and sing along with. The
bass player is just a very laid back easy going guy and will play
anything the group decides on. Though if he had his druthers I think
we'd cover a Rush tune. The lead singer sees the business end
(marketability, audience participation, and energy levels all
contribute to the success of a show and your sales numbers). But our
keyboard player (an integral part of our sound and business) is totally
opposed to it. He believes playing a cover is akin to saying, "we're
incapable of writing another good original, so we thought we'd play
someone else's music." To the rest of us, he just doesn't get it.
Is
Post by Bazooka-Joe
this idealogy common? I was flabbergasted when I first heard it.
And
Post by Bazooka-Joe
he's passionate about it too. I happen to know the opinions of the
others and he's agreed to concede if he's out numbered, which he is.
Anyone else come across this?
Stephen Worth
2005-03-29 22:39:53 UTC
Permalink
There is nothing wrong with doing a cover as long as you make it your
own. There's no point doing a soundalike version though. The only way
to find out if you can make something different of it is to try. You
might do better to just try a couple of covers just to play around
with, rather than as something to add to your set. If it works out
well, then decide whether you want to add it or not.

See ya
Steve
--
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FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
Rob Duncan
2005-03-30 03:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
Youve recieved a variety of views on the subject. The reason people play
covers is because they sound good and the audience likes them. The reason
they sound good and the audience likes them is because they are usually
better than anything the band can come up with on its own. If a band could
match the enjoyment factor of playing a cover, with a song of their own,
they obviously would have no need to play a cover.

Maybe your keyboard player thinks you guys are as good as musicians whove
made it and have put out albums and recieved tons of airplay. Who knows?
Who cares? You mentioned he would go along if the band wanted to do it, so
tell him to go along and play your cover. Its just a song. We never
pretended to be as good as Jimmy or the Stones, so on occasion we would play
a few of their songs. Because, obviously, they were better songs than the
majority of what we wrote. Theres no shame in that. Anyone who pretends to
be as good as the author of All Along the Watchtower, or Angie, is deluding
themselves.

Just play it in your bands style. Love it, Jam, go to town, blow the crowd
away, make it your own. Own it. Hell, one of our most loved songs was a
bizzare version of Iron Man. Why they loved it I'll never know, buy hey,
people like it. Youre job isnt to puff up your ego's, its to entertain.
Some, who are a little to puffed up with themselves, tend to forget that.

If you go the cover route, and theres not a thing wrong with it, mainly
because people love it if its a good tune, youve two choices. Cover it damn
good, as much like the original as possible, or pretend you wrote the song
and make it your own. Stylize it. Invest in it. So theres no mistake that
your making no attempt to sound like the original. I understand your
keyboard players opinion though. Youre not a good musician if the only
thing you can do is copy other peoples music. Maybe he really needs to make
the cover his own before hes comfortable with it.

A good musician isnt one who can copy Jimmy pefectly, its one who can
compose stuff people like. That may be part of his thought process. A good
friend in college was the lead guitar player for Babylon, who were, btw,
fricken incredibly awesome, opened many of their concerts with a three song
montage of Zep. If I remember right they started off their concert with The
Immigrant Song. Great band, great cover. But to ask them to try and "copy"
it...? No chance in hell... it was beneath them, and I agree with that.
(I think he was also a studio musician on Rats most succesful album and says
the lead singer was a total loser/putz/cry baby. Ive never forgotten that
for some reason.)


Rob
(damn, sorry for being so long winded.) What song are you thinking about?
n***@wt.net
2005-03-30 07:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
A good musician isnt one who can copy Jimmy pefectly, its one who can
compose stuff people like.
Nope...Being a good musician is being a good musician. People
who can compose, are good composers..The two are not the same.
I've seen plenty of people playing covers, that were good
musicians, but not all good musicians are good composers.
Myself, a good song is a good song, no matter who wrote it.
I don't think playing a cover will ever ruin an "original"
bands rep, unless they play it bad...I think I would just
take vote...Majority wins...Myself, if I were an original
song band, it would not bother me in the least to play a
cover song...And it does not bother me if it's played as
close as possible, or mangled beyond recognition...I do
both...I usually learn a song original at first,
note for note...I consider it a learning excercise. But
I'll often later mangle it...I'm supposed to play "red
house" at a blues jam in two weeks...But I still haven't
decided if I'm gonna play it straight, or mangle...
I guess it will depend on my initial evaluation of the
people I get to jam with, as to what I do...Myself,
it wouldn't bother me at all to mangle the song, and
make it different, but myself, I think the studio version
of red house is *nearly* perfect as far as an arraignment,
so I may well play it pretty straight if I think my backup
can play that groove, and I end up by myself....One solo..
I've always liked the studio version better than any live
version I've heard. But if there are other geetars playing,
and they want a solo shot, I'd probably have to stretch it
out to a longer version...Changes the feel of the song...
BTW...Some good composers are lousy musicians...Works the
other way too...I'd say being a good composer is probably
harder than being a good musician...And being a good musician
can be real simple...A single person with an acoustic can be
a good musician if they play, sing, etc..I've seen some that
could hold a crowd all day long. I don't sing hardly at all..
So many would think I was worse a musician, just for that
reason alone...All I have to hold peoples attention is geetar
licks...Often, you have to think like a non player to gauge
what people might like, or not...And being tricky and full of
hot licks means little, if the song is lame, and delivery is
sloppy. Often, the simple well played stuff gets a better
review. Depends on the crowd...Some crowds expect hot licks,
and get restless if the music is too "soft"...Usually the
rock n rollers...:/ If there is one rule I try to follow, it's
I stay true to my style...I can't play much country or jazz ,
and I won't ever torture people trying to fake it...I'm basically
a rock n roller, and I'll never stray too far from that, without
first doing more study of any other style first...
MK
Rob Duncan
2005-03-30 08:56:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@wt.net
Post by Rob Duncan
A good musician isnt one who can copy Jimmy pefectly, its one who can
compose stuff people like.
Nope...Being a good musician is being a good musician. People
who can compose, are good composers..The two are not the same.
I've seen plenty of people playing covers, that were good
musicians, but not all good musicians are good composers.
Myself, a good song is a good song, no matter who wrote it.
I don't think playing a cover will ever ruin an "original"
bands rep, unless they play it bad...I think I would just
take vote...Majority wins...Myself, if I were an original
song band, it would not bother me in the least to play a
cover song...And it does not bother me if it's played as
close as possible, or mangled beyond recognition...I do
both...I usually learn a song original at first,
note for note...I consider it a learning excercise. But
I'll often later mangle it...I'm supposed to play "red
house" at a blues jam in two weeks...But I still haven't
decided if I'm gonna play it straight, or mangle...
I guess it will depend on my initial evaluation of the
people I get to jam with, as to what I do...Myself,
it wouldn't bother me at all to mangle the song, and
make it different, but myself, I think the studio version
of red house is *nearly* perfect as far as an arraignment,
so I may well play it pretty straight if I think my backup
can play that groove, and I end up by myself....One solo..
I've always liked the studio version better than any live
version I've heard. But if there are other geetars playing,
and they want a solo shot, I'd probably have to stretch it
out to a longer version...Changes the feel of the song...
BTW...Some good composers are lousy musicians...Works the
other way too...I'd say being a good composer is probably
harder than being a good musician...And being a good musician
can be real simple...A single person with an acoustic can be
a good musician if they play, sing, etc..I've seen some that
could hold a crowd all day long. I don't sing hardly at all..
So many would think I was worse a musician, just for that
reason alone...All I have to hold peoples attention is geetar
licks...Often, you have to think like a non player to gauge
what people might like, or not...And being tricky and full of
hot licks means little, if the song is lame, and delivery is
sloppy. Often, the simple well played stuff gets a better
review. Depends on the crowd...Some crowds expect hot licks,
and get restless if the music is too "soft"...Usually the
rock n rollers...:/ If there is one rule I try to follow, it's
I stay true to my style...I can't play much country or jazz ,
and I won't ever torture people trying to fake it...I'm basically
a rock n roller, and I'll never stray too far from that, without
first doing more study of any other style first...
MK
I tend to agree. Although we differ on our definitions of what a "good
musician" is. Ive met so many "good musicians" over the years I look at
them as nothing more than average. Just the same old same old. Any city
worth its size has hundreds and hundreds of musicians, average musicians,
who can copy every note Jimmy ever played. Or name your favorite. I dont
consider them good musicians, just musicians. We have to be able to
deliniate between those who can only copy others music, and those who can
create music. Good musicians can compose. Proficient musicians can copy.
Btw, I didnt mean to imply the counter, that a good composer is automaticaly
a good musician, as I dont feel that way. Sorry if thats what you took from
what I said. Its all just opinion anyway...

Ever hear of the Holy Model Rounders? Dr. Corns Electric Grass Band? Tom
Panzer?


Rob
n***@wt.net
2005-03-30 10:04:27 UTC
Permalink
I tend to agree. Although we differ on our definitions of what a "good

musician" is. Ive met so many "good musicians" over the years I look
at
them as nothing more than average. Just the same old same old. Any
city
worth its size has hundreds and hundreds of musicians, average
musicians,
who can copy every note Jimmy ever played.

Well, I don't know about that...I'm in Houston, and I don't know
a whole lot of people that can play Jimi, and sound like him.
Sure, many can play the notes, but their phrasing will be off,
etc, etc...There are a few that can pull it off, but not 100's
by any stretch of the imagination.
Heck, I don't know that much Jimi....I know more
Van Halen songs than I do Jimi as an example.....That's another
many try to copy, and often fall short...They just don't get
the phrasing right...
Actually, I consider being able to accurately copy, or transcribe,
an art in itself...It's a game to me...When I try to copy someone,
I try to also get the same sound, phrasing, etc...In my
brain, I almost become them in the way I phrase and attack the
instrument. Doing that with many different players over time
builds chops. In the end, it all melts into "your sound"...
But it takes time, and lots of playing as you know..
But I also improvise on the fly. Actually, it's hard for me
*not* to improvise usually. I have a tendency to want to let
it rip, and wank away...When I was learning "red house",
I kept wanted to change the lines just by instinct.
But I forced myself to learn the original just for good
measure. That doesn't mean I have to play it that way though..
But I can...



Or name your favorite. I dont
consider them good musicians, just musicians.

Whatever. Every good musician I know has copied someone at
one time or another...

We have to be able to
deliniate between those who can only copy others music, and those who
can
create music. ................

Maybe you do, I don't. Doesn't matter to me...Only the final
product matters to me...Either it's good to my ears, or it ain't...

Good musicians can compose. Proficient musicians can copy.

Well, almost anybody can probably "compose"...Whether it's any
good will depend mostly on the tastes of the listener...
I can certainly compose, but my stuff would probably sound
much like VH, Satch, EJ, etc, more instrumental driven,
rather than more mainstream type stuff with cozy vocals, etc....
Many might not like what I compose..I doubt I would be that
good at "catchy" songs like some are...But I can probably
spew out a catchy riff from time to time...And those can lead
to catchy tunes...

Btw, I didnt mean to imply the counter, that a good composer is
automaticaly
a good musician, as I dont feel that way. Sorry if thats what you
took from
what I said. Its all just opinion anyway...


Actually, I don't give it that much thought normally. I just
play....All this deep thinking stuff gives me a headache...
But this also goes back to what I said about viewing selections
from a *non players* point of view. When I choose a song, I
choose what I think will go over with the audience at hand.
To a non player, many of those "run-o-the-mill" players you
comment about, probably seem quite entertaining to a non player.
Players tend to get too technically hung up on things that
listeners could care less about.
IE: when I play the "blues jam" in two weeks, they will not
give a hoot whether I'm a composer, play covers, or whatever.
They just want me to rock the house. Pretty basic and primitive
actually...And thats what I plan to do. I'm gonna rock the house.
Either they will get it, or they won't. I bet they will though...:)
I plan to brown the food.

Ever hear of the Holy Model Rounders? Dr. Corns Electric Grass Band?
Tom
Panzer?

Nope...None of them, that I recall...I used to remember some band
with "rounders" in the name, but I don't think it was that one...
MK
Rob Duncan
2005-03-30 13:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
I tend to agree. Although we differ on our definitions of what a "good
musician" is. Ive met so many "good musicians" over the years I look at
them as nothing more than average. Just the same old same old. Any city
worth its size has hundreds and hundreds of musicians, average
musicians,
who can copy every note Jimmy ever played.
Well, I don't know about that...I'm in Houston, and I don't know
a whole lot of people that can play Jimi, and sound like him.
Sure, many can play the notes, but their phrasing will be off,
etc, etc...There are a few that can pull it off, but not 100's
by any stretch of the imagination.
Heck, I don't know that much Jimi....I know more
Van Halen songs than I do Jimi as an example.....That's another
many try to copy, and often fall short...They just don't get
the phrasing right...
Actually, I consider being able to accurately copy, or transcribe,
an art in itself...It's a game to me...When I try to copy someone,
I try to also get the same sound, phrasing, etc...In my
brain, I almost become them in the way I phrase and attack the
instrument. Doing that with many different players over time
builds chops. In the end, it all melts into "your sound"...
But it takes time, and lots of playing as you know..
But I also improvise on the fly. Actually, it's hard for me
*not* to improvise usually. I have a tendency to want to let
it rip, and wank away...When I was learning "red house",
I kept wanted to change the lines just by instinct.
But I forced myself to learn the original just for good
measure. That doesn't mean I have to play it that way though..
But I can...
Or name your favorite. I dont
consider them good musicians, just musicians.
Whatever. Every good musician I know has copied someone at
one time or another...
We have to be able to
deliniate between those who can only copy others music, and those who can
create music. ................
Maybe you do, I don't. Doesn't matter to me...Only the final
product matters to me...Either it's good to my ears, or it ain't...
Good musicians can compose. Proficient musicians can copy.
Well, almost anybody can probably "compose"...Whether it's any
good will depend mostly on the tastes of the listener...
I can certainly compose, but my stuff would probably sound
much like VH, Satch, EJ, etc, more instrumental driven,
rather than more mainstream type stuff with cozy vocals, etc....
Many might not like what I compose..I doubt I would be that
good at "catchy" songs like some are...But I can probably
spew out a catchy riff from time to time...And those can lead
to catchy tunes...
Btw, I didnt mean to imply the counter, that a good composer is automaticaly
a good musician, as I dont feel that way. Sorry if thats what you took from
what I said. Its all just opinion anyway...
Actually, I don't give it that much thought normally. I just
play....All this deep thinking stuff gives me a headache...
But this also goes back to what I said about viewing selections
from a *non players* point of view. When I choose a song, I
choose what I think will go over with the audience at hand.
To a non player, many of those "run-o-the-mill" players you
comment about, probably seem quite entertaining to a non player.
Players tend to get too technically hung up on things that
listeners could care less about.
IE: when I play the "blues jam" in two weeks, they will not
give a hoot whether I'm a composer, play covers, or whatever.
They just want me to rock the house. Pretty basic and primitive
actually...And thats what I plan to do. I'm gonna rock the house.
Either they will get it, or they won't. I bet they will though...:)
I plan to brown the food.
Ever hear of the Holy Model Rounders? Dr. Corns Electric Grass Band?
Tom
Panzer?
Nope...None of them, that I recall...I used to remember some band
with "rounders" in the name, but I don't think it was that one...
MK
Just some older bands with older musicians. Good bands. Good musicians.
The Rounders played nearly all original, Dr. Corns played many covers. All
good musicians. I may have made my statement rather broad. In anycase,
maybe its a game of semantics. When I think of "good musician," I think of
one better than the avg. Matters not though. I think of any musician as
good in his own right, under a different context. When Spinal Tap got back
together years after their hillarious movie and album they toured and hit
our city. One of the most entertaining concerts Id been to in a while.
Good musicians. Of course thousands of highschool kids could copy, and play
their music note for note, better in many cases, then they did... But none
wrote it. None created it. It takes a "good" musician to do that. Maybe
thats my own quirky definition, but I think of musicians as being good, when
they play their own music. All just opinion though.

I hope you kick some serious booty at your show. It sounds like a lot of
fun. Have a great time and knock-em dead.


Rob
Guncho
2005-03-30 17:23:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Rob Duncan
I tend to agree. Although we differ on our definitions of what a "good
musician" is. Ive met so many "good musicians" over the years I look
at
them as nothing more than average. Just the same old same old.
Any
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Rob Duncan
city
worth its size has hundreds and hundreds of musicians, average musicians,
who can copy every note Jimmy ever played.
Well, I don't know about that...I'm in Houston, and I don't know
a whole lot of people that can play Jimi, and sound like him.
Sure, many can play the notes, but their phrasing will be off,
etc, etc...There are a few that can pull it off, but not 100's
by any stretch of the imagination.
Heck, I don't know that much Jimi....I know more
Van Halen songs than I do Jimi as an example.....That's another
many try to copy, and often fall short...They just don't get
the phrasing right...
Actually, I consider being able to accurately copy, or transcribe,
an art in itself...It's a game to me...When I try to copy someone,
I try to also get the same sound, phrasing, etc...In my
brain, I almost become them in the way I phrase and attack the
instrument. Doing that with many different players over time
builds chops. In the end, it all melts into "your sound"...
But it takes time, and lots of playing as you know..
But I also improvise on the fly. Actually, it's hard for me
*not* to improvise usually. I have a tendency to want to let
it rip, and wank away...When I was learning "red house",
I kept wanted to change the lines just by instinct.
But I forced myself to learn the original just for good
measure. That doesn't mean I have to play it that way though..
But I can...
Or name your favorite. I dont
consider them good musicians, just musicians.
Whatever. Every good musician I know has copied someone at
one time or another...
We have to be able to
deliniate between those who can only copy others music, and those who
can
create music. ................
Maybe you do, I don't. Doesn't matter to me...Only the final
product matters to me...Either it's good to my ears, or it ain't...
Good musicians can compose. Proficient musicians can copy.
Well, almost anybody can probably "compose"...Whether it's any
good will depend mostly on the tastes of the listener...
I can certainly compose, but my stuff would probably sound
much like VH, Satch, EJ, etc, more instrumental driven,
rather than more mainstream type stuff with cozy vocals, etc....
Many might not like what I compose..I doubt I would be that
good at "catchy" songs like some are...But I can probably
spew out a catchy riff from time to time...And those can lead
to catchy tunes...
Btw, I didnt mean to imply the counter, that a good composer is automaticaly
a good musician, as I dont feel that way. Sorry if thats what you took from
what I said. Its all just opinion anyway...
Actually, I don't give it that much thought normally. I just
play....All this deep thinking stuff gives me a headache...
But this also goes back to what I said about viewing selections
from a *non players* point of view. When I choose a song, I
choose what I think will go over with the audience at hand.
To a non player, many of those "run-o-the-mill" players you
comment about, probably seem quite entertaining to a non player.
Players tend to get too technically hung up on things that
listeners could care less about.
IE: when I play the "blues jam" in two weeks, they will not
give a hoot whether I'm a composer, play covers, or whatever.
They just want me to rock the house. Pretty basic and primitive
actually...And thats what I plan to do. I'm gonna rock the house.
Either they will get it, or they won't. I bet they will though...:)
I plan to brown the food.
Ever hear of the Holy Model Rounders? Dr. Corns Electric Grass Band?
Tom
Panzer?
Nope...None of them, that I recall...I used to remember some band
with "rounders" in the name, but I don't think it was that one...
MK
Just some older bands with older musicians. Good bands. Good
musicians.
Post by Rob Duncan
The Rounders played nearly all original, Dr. Corns played many
covers. All
Post by Rob Duncan
good musicians. I may have made my statement rather broad. In anycase,
maybe its a game of semantics. When I think of "good musician," I think of
one better than the avg. Matters not though. I think of any
musician as
Post by Rob Duncan
good in his own right, under a different context. When Spinal Tap got back
together years after their hillarious movie and album they toured and hit
our city. One of the most entertaining concerts Id been to in a while.
Good musicians. Of course thousands of highschool kids could copy, and play
their music note for note, better in many cases, then they did... But none
wrote it. None created it. It takes a "good" musician to do that.
Maybe
Post by Rob Duncan
thats my own quirky definition, but I think of musicians as being good, when
they play their own music. All just opinion though.
I hope you kick some serious booty at your show. It sounds like a lot of
fun. Have a great time and knock-em dead.
Rob
Rob

Being a musician and being a composer are not the same things at all.
You don't have to write to be a great musician. Take any symphony
player for instance.

Chris
n***@wt.net
2005-03-31 09:52:19 UTC
Permalink
I hope you kick some serious booty at your show. It sounds like a lot
of
fun. Have a great time and knock-em dead.

It's nothing really that serious...A friend of mine has been
going to these lately, and he finally talked me into going..
Normally, I'm pretty much a closet geetar player....This will
be the 1st time I've played in front of people in ages...
They seem to have a pretty good turnout as far as players..
They are supposed to have most all the gear, etc, so I won't
even have to drag an amp...Supposably, they will have a fender
hot rod deluxe I can use...I've never used one of those, but
I think it should be ok...It's a small club...MK
Bazooka-Joe
2005-03-30 21:12:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@wt.net
Well, I don't know about that...I'm in Houston, and I don't know
a whole lot of people that can play Jimi, and sound like him.
This is kinda cool. We've had Atlanta, Houston, Canada, and a couple
other places weight in on this, and it really does appear to be a
regional kind of a thing. For that matter it may differ from city to
city. I think genre may have something to do with it too. I'm from
the Northwest. We wind up playing shows as far South as Sacramento, as
far North as Seattle and as far East as Boise.

Sidenote: that's all changing. This spring/summer we're touring to
Tennessee, Ohio, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Montana, Idaho,
Utah, Minnesota, Arkansas, and others (I gave up trying to keep track).
We leave next Tuesday for our first two week long tour and a showcase
in Nashville. Then we're back doing to the local/regional thing for
two months, then we leave in June for 3 months straight. It's my first
time ever doing anything like that. Luckily the guys in the band are
all best friends with each other, so I don't foresee any inter-personal
problemos. I think so long as we're getting along we can persevere
through anything.

Anyway, I can tell you that around here, cover bands are a dying breed.
Hearing a cover or two in a predominantly original set is most common,
at least in my experience. And I've never seen a tribute band around
here (a la the movie "Rockstar" with Marky Mark). There's probably a
dozen different circuits though and I only have experience on a couple
so others in this area may have a different experience. The
overwhelming majority of musicians I come in contact with in this
region are all of the "I'm an artiste" mentality. I'm more of the "I
need to eat" mentality myself. :)

So getting feedback from these other regions like this is going to be
very helpful for me as we tour to these places. Thanks guys for the
input.
Rob Duncan
2005-03-31 02:35:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Post by n***@wt.net
Well, I don't know about that...I'm in Houston, and I don't know
a whole lot of people that can play Jimi, and sound like him.
This is kinda cool. We've had Atlanta, Houston, Canada, and a couple
other places weight in on this, and it really does appear to be a
regional kind of a thing. For that matter it may differ from city to
city. I think genre may have something to do with it too. I'm from
the Northwest. We wind up playing shows as far South as Sacramento, as
far North as Seattle and as far East as Boise.
Sidenote: that's all changing. This spring/summer we're touring to
Tennessee, Ohio, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Montana, Idaho,
Utah, Minnesota, Arkansas, and others (I gave up trying to keep track).
We leave next Tuesday for our first two week long tour and a showcase
in Nashville. Then we're back doing to the local/regional thing for
two months, then we leave in June for 3 months straight. It's my first
time ever doing anything like that. Luckily the guys in the band are
all best friends with each other, so I don't foresee any inter-personal
problemos. I think so long as we're getting along we can persevere
through anything.
Anyway, I can tell you that around here, cover bands are a dying breed.
Hearing a cover or two in a predominantly original set is most common,
at least in my experience. And I've never seen a tribute band around
here (a la the movie "Rockstar" with Marky Mark). There's probably a
dozen different circuits though and I only have experience on a couple
so others in this area may have a different experience. The
overwhelming majority of musicians I come in contact with in this
region are all of the "I'm an artiste" mentality. I'm more of the "I
need to eat" mentality myself. :)
So getting feedback from these other regions like this is going to be
very helpful for me as we tour to these places. Thanks guys for the
input.
If you can email me your dates youre playing in Portland or Boise I can talk
to some radio friends and get your band a short interview if you like. That
is, if you dont suck. What kind of music do you play? Do you know where
your playing in Boise yet? The dates? A friend of mine, a stations
copywriter, is married to a rock station manager in Boise and he's up on
getting clips of touring bands that visit. If you want. All publicity is
good publicity. You have a link to any of your music I can pass on to him?


Rob
howldog
2005-03-30 14:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@wt.net
Post by Rob Duncan
A good musician isnt one who can copy Jimmy pefectly, its one who can
compose stuff people like.
Nope...Being a good musician is being a good musician. People
who can compose, are good composers..The two are not the same.
I've seen plenty of people playing covers, that were good
musicians, but not all good musicians are good composers.
thats a good point.

from what i've seen around Atlanta, most of the good quality cover
bands, that work a lot, have a much higher calibre of musician, than
all the little original bands. I think its a different discipline,
but, also in the originals scene, there's often this snotty disdain
for people who actually learned how to play real well. Like, if you
dont write songs, yer a wanker. Or something.
Guncho
2005-03-30 17:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by howldog
Post by n***@wt.net
Post by Rob Duncan
A good musician isnt one who can copy Jimmy pefectly, its one who can
compose stuff people like.
Nope...Being a good musician is being a good musician. People
who can compose, are good composers..The two are not the same.
I've seen plenty of people playing covers, that were good
musicians, but not all good musicians are good composers.
thats a good point.
from what i've seen around Atlanta, most of the good quality cover
bands, that work a lot, have a much higher calibre of musician, than
all the little original bands. I think its a different discipline,
but, also in the originals scene, there's often this snotty disdain
for people who actually learned how to play real well. Like, if you
dont write songs, yer a wanker. Or something.
Guilty!

Chris
howldog
2005-03-30 19:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guncho
Post by howldog
Post by n***@wt.net
Post by Rob Duncan
A good musician isnt one who can copy Jimmy pefectly, its one who
can
Post by howldog
Post by n***@wt.net
Post by Rob Duncan
compose stuff people like.
Nope...Being a good musician is being a good musician. People
who can compose, are good composers..The two are not the same.
I've seen plenty of people playing covers, that were good
musicians, but not all good musicians are good composers.
thats a good point.
from what i've seen around Atlanta, most of the good quality cover
bands, that work a lot, have a much higher calibre of musician, than
all the little original bands. I think its a different discipline,
but, also in the originals scene, there's often this snotty disdain
for people who actually learned how to play real well. Like, if you
dont write songs, yer a wanker. Or something.
Guilty!
There's a shock.
Clutch
2005-03-30 15:04:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
Youve recieved a variety of views on the subject. The reason people play
covers is because they sound good and the audience likes them. The reason
they sound good and the audience likes them is because they are usually
better than anything the band can come up with on its own. If a band could
match the enjoyment factor of playing a cover, with a song of their own,
they obviously would have no need to play a cover.
Maybe your keyboard player thinks you guys are as good as musicians whove
made it and have put out albums and recieved tons of airplay. Who knows?
Who cares? You mentioned he would go along if the band wanted to do it, so
tell him to go along and play your cover. Its just a song. We never
pretended to be as good as Jimmy or the Stones, so on occasion we would play
a few of their songs. Because, obviously, they were better songs than the
majority of what we wrote. Theres no shame in that. Anyone who pretends to
be as good as the author of All Along the Watchtower, or Angie, is deluding
themselves.
I always thought the Hendrix cover of All Along the Watchtower had
interesting results. Dylan himself started playing it more like Hendrix
after it released. It's a perfect example of making a cover your own. I
wonder if Jimi knew he had that kind of effect on Dylan with it.
Neil Gendzwill
2005-03-30 15:26:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clutch
I always thought the Hendrix cover of All Along the Watchtower had
interesting results. Dylan himself started playing it more like Hendrix
after it released. It's a perfect example of making a cover your own. I
wonder if Jimi knew he had that kind of effect on Dylan with it.
I've always appreciated a new take on a familiar song. Personally, I
don't even want to hear it the same way from the original band - I think
it's really cool when they play their own songs in different ways.
Cowboy Junkies took it even one step further - they're famous for their
slow, hypnotic take on "Sweet Jane" (which Lou Reed loves, apparently)
but I heard a BBC Live recording of them where they rocked it out just
for a change-up. I thought that was a great way to fuck with the
audience. The Junkies live are quite different from the records anyways.

One of my favourite original artists is Holly Cole, but she does hardly
any originals - just covers bent way out of shape. She comes from the
old school of thought where there's performers and songwriters and
rarely can one person do both at a really high level.

Having said all that, I'll wager that cover bands have more success with
note-perfect renditions than making it their own. The average listener
wants to hear what he's always heard, right down to the notes in the solos.

Neil
Guncho
2005-03-30 17:26:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Gendzwill
Post by Clutch
I always thought the Hendrix cover of All Along the Watchtower had
interesting results. Dylan himself started playing it more like Hendrix
after it released. It's a perfect example of making a cover your own. I
wonder if Jimi knew he had that kind of effect on Dylan with it.
I've always appreciated a new take on a familiar song. Personally, I
don't even want to hear it the same way from the original band - I think
it's really cool when they play their own songs in different ways.
Cowboy Junkies took it even one step further - they're famous for their
slow, hypnotic take on "Sweet Jane" (which Lou Reed loves,
apparently)
Post by Neil Gendzwill
but I heard a BBC Live recording of them where they rocked it out just
for a change-up. I thought that was a great way to fuck with the
audience. The Junkies live are quite different from the records anyways.
One of my favourite original artists is Holly Cole, but she does hardly
any originals - just covers bent way out of shape. She comes from the
old school of thought where there's performers and songwriters and
rarely can one person do both at a really high level.
Having said all that, I'll wager that cover bands have more success with
note-perfect renditions than making it their own. The average
listener
Post by Neil Gendzwill
wants to hear what he's always heard, right down to the notes in the solos.
Neil
Neil

I'm guessing you're from Canada? Where are you? I live in Toronto eh!

Chris
Neil Gendzwill
2005-03-30 17:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guncho
Neil
I'm guessing you're from Canada? Where are you? I live in Toronto eh!
What, the fanwanking over Cowboy Junkies and Holly Cole gave it away? I
hate it when that happens.

I'm in Saskatoon, musical home of... not much, lately. If you listen
closely, you can hear the sound of Theresa Sokyrka fading away into
obscurity...

Neil
Rob Duncan
2005-03-31 02:41:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Gendzwill
Post by Clutch
I always thought the Hendrix cover of All Along the Watchtower had
interesting results. Dylan himself started playing it more like Hendrix
after it released. It's a perfect example of making a cover your own. I
wonder if Jimi knew he had that kind of effect on Dylan with it.
I've always appreciated a new take on a familiar song. Personally, I
don't even want to hear it the same way from the original band - I think
it's really cool when they play their own songs in different ways. Cowboy
Junkies took it even one step further - they're famous for their slow,
hypnotic take on "Sweet Jane" (which Lou Reed loves, apparently)
Excellent example. I even liked that one bands cover of "I Will Survive."
Either do an exact copy, or make it your own.
Post by Neil Gendzwill
but I heard a BBC Live recording of them where they rocked it out just for
a change-up. I thought that was a great way to fuck with the audience.
The Junkies live are quite different from the records anyways.
One of my favourite original artists is Holly Cole, but she does hardly
any originals - just covers bent way out of shape. She comes from the old
school of thought where there's performers and songwriters and rarely can
one person do both at a really high level.
Having said all that, I'll wager that cover bands have more success with
note-perfect renditions than making it their own. The average listener
wants to hear what he's always heard, right down to the notes in the solos.
Neil
Rob
StratMatt
2005-04-02 08:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Neil Gendzwill
Post by Clutch
I always thought the Hendrix cover of All Along the Watchtower had
interesting results. Dylan himself started playing it more like Hendrix
after it released. It's a perfect example of making a cover your own. I
wonder if Jimi knew he had that kind of effect on Dylan with it.
I've always appreciated a new take on a familiar song. Personally, I
don't even want to hear it the same way from the original band - I think
it's really cool when they play their own songs in different ways. Cowboy
Junkies took it even one step further - they're famous for their slow,
hypnotic take on "Sweet Jane" (which Lou Reed loves, apparently)
Excellent example. I even liked that one bands cover of "I Will Survive."
....

You're talking about Cake, right?
Very cool version of that song! Cool band too- though their following albums
didn't match the first (mostly because they sounded like they attempted to
make the exact same album over again, with all the " Ya, ya!" and "Alright"
cliche things the singer repeats, becoming a cliche of himself- or something).
:)

Matt
Post by Rob Duncan
Rob
Guncho
2005-03-30 17:18:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
Youve recieved a variety of views on the subject. The reason people play
covers is because they sound good and the audience likes them. The reason
they sound good and the audience likes them is because they are usually
better than anything the band can come up with on its own. If a band could
match the enjoyment factor of playing a cover, with a song of their own,
they obviously would have no need to play a cover.
That is such a load of crap.

Well I guess Hendrix, Zeppelin and the Stones don't write any good
songs because they did LOADS of covers.

Chris
Rob Duncan
2005-03-31 02:42:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by mickey
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
Youve recieved a variety of views on the subject. The reason people
play
Post by Rob Duncan
covers is because they sound good and the audience likes them. The
reason
Post by Rob Duncan
they sound good and the audience likes them is because they are
usually
Post by Rob Duncan
better than anything the band can come up with on its own. If a band
could
Post by Rob Duncan
match the enjoyment factor of playing a cover, with a song of their
own,
Post by Rob Duncan
they obviously would have no need to play a cover.
That is such a load of crap.
Well I guess Hendrix, Zeppelin and the Stones don't write any good
songs because they did LOADS of covers.
Chris
Thats the exact opposite of what I was saying.


Rob
Guncho
2005-03-31 15:38:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by mickey
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist
differing
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by mickey
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Bazooka-Joe
opinions on playing cover songs?
Youve recieved a variety of views on the subject. The reason people
play
Post by Rob Duncan
covers is because they sound good and the audience likes them.
The
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by mickey
reason
Post by Rob Duncan
they sound good and the audience likes them is because they are
usually
Post by Rob Duncan
better than anything the band can come up with on its own. If a band
could
Post by Rob Duncan
match the enjoyment factor of playing a cover, with a song of their
own,
Post by Rob Duncan
they obviously would have no need to play a cover.
That is such a load of crap.
Well I guess Hendrix, Zeppelin and the Stones don't write any good
songs because they did LOADS of covers.
Chris
Thats the exact opposite of what I was saying.
Rob
"If a band could match the enjoyment factor of playing a cover, with a
song of their own, they obviously would have no need to play a cover.
"

Looks like it to me?

Chris
Rob Duncan
2005-04-01 10:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by mickey
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist
differing
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by mickey
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Bazooka-Joe
opinions on playing cover songs?
Youve recieved a variety of views on the subject. The reason
people
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by mickey
play
Post by Rob Duncan
covers is because they sound good and the audience likes them.
The
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by mickey
reason
Post by Rob Duncan
they sound good and the audience likes them is because they are
usually
Post by Rob Duncan
better than anything the band can come up with on its own. If a
band
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by mickey
could
Post by Rob Duncan
match the enjoyment factor of playing a cover, with a song of
their
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by mickey
own,
Post by Rob Duncan
they obviously would have no need to play a cover.
That is such a load of crap.
Well I guess Hendrix, Zeppelin and the Stones don't write any good
songs because they did LOADS of covers.
Chris
Thats the exact opposite of what I was saying.
Rob
"If a band could match the enjoyment factor of playing a cover, with a
song of their own, they obviously would have no need to play a cover.
"
Looks like it to me?
Chris
Youre just looking for something to argue with, youve taken it out of
context. Have you ever written anything better than a Zep or Stones song?
Or do you play covers? Good bands play covers, but they arent cover bands.
Even the best of bands realize there are great songs that can add to their
show, that is somebody elses work... If it wasnt better than what they
would play in place of it, they obviously wouldnt play it, right? Is that
understandable? You wouldnt replace a good song with one unworthy of
replacing it, right? So the covers are better than what would have been
played in its place. That is why you play them after all.


Rob
Guncho
2005-04-01 18:01:26 UTC
Permalink
Even the best of bands realize there are great songs that can add to
their
Post by Rob Duncan
show, that is somebody elses work... If it wasnt better than what they
would play in place of it, they obviously wouldnt play it, right? Is that
understandable?
So you are saying that say The Stones play a cover because they don't
have a better song to play in it's place.

Sounds like that's exactly what you're saying to me.

Chris
Rob Duncan
2005-04-01 23:12:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Even the best of bands realize there are great songs that can add to their
Post by Rob Duncan
show, that is somebody elses work... If it wasnt better than what
they
Post by Rob Duncan
would play in place of it, they obviously wouldnt play it, right? Is
that
Post by Rob Duncan
understandable?
So you are saying that say The Stones play a cover because they don't
have a better song to play in it's place.
Sounds like that's exactly what you're saying to me.
Chris
For that particular show or venue. Why would they play something less
enjoyable than what they themselves author? Unless they felt it was better.
Regardless, its clear we disagree in our perspective and Ive no interest in
getting into a long drawn out argumentative discussion over it. So...
whatever you say, Im sure has some merit. Ive long ago learned... nothings
only black or white, all or none, go or no-go. Theres gray in everything,
especially in my mind after about the 15th reply. ;^)


Rob
Guncho
2005-04-02 00:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Rob Duncan
Even the best of bands realize there are great songs that can add to
their
Post by Rob Duncan
show, that is somebody elses work... If it wasnt better than what
they
Post by Rob Duncan
would play in place of it, they obviously wouldnt play it, right?
Is
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Rob Duncan
that
Post by Rob Duncan
understandable?
So you are saying that say The Stones play a cover because they don't
have a better song to play in it's place.
Sounds like that's exactly what you're saying to me.
Chris
For that particular show or venue. Why would they play something less
enjoyable than what they themselves author? Unless they felt it was better.
Regardless, its clear we disagree in our perspective and Ive no interest in
getting into a long drawn out argumentative discussion over it.
So...
Post by Rob Duncan
whatever you say, Im sure has some merit. Ive long ago learned... nothings
only black or white, all or none, go or no-go. Theres gray in
everything,
Post by Rob Duncan
especially in my mind after about the 15th reply. ;^)
Rob
Rob

If a band plays a cover and it sounds like they could have written it
then they're playing it, simply because they want to and it's fun. It
doesn't mean they're playing it because they don't have a better song.
Also big name bands get bored out their minds playing the same songs
over and over again on tour and it's a bit of fresh air to play
something new.

I will fully agree with you however that I have seen bands who played a
cover note for note and it definetly gave off the impression that if
they had a better original to play they wouldn't or shouldn't play note
for note covers.

The instance I'm thinking of was a female fronted rock band with so-so
songs that played an Alanis Morrisette song note for note. It was
pretty predicatable.

So I agree with you somewhat. I just thought you needed to clarify
your statement.

Chris
Guncho
2005-04-02 00:13:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Rob Duncan
Even the best of bands realize there are great songs that can add to
their
Post by Rob Duncan
show, that is somebody elses work... If it wasnt better than what
they
Post by Rob Duncan
would play in place of it, they obviously wouldnt play it, right?
Is
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Rob Duncan
that
Post by Rob Duncan
understandable?
So you are saying that say The Stones play a cover because they don't
have a better song to play in it's place.
Sounds like that's exactly what you're saying to me.
Chris
For that particular show or venue. Why would they play something less
enjoyable than what they themselves author? Unless they felt it was better.
Regardless, its clear we disagree in our perspective and Ive no interest in
getting into a long drawn out argumentative discussion over it.
So...
Post by Rob Duncan
whatever you say, Im sure has some merit. Ive long ago learned... nothings
only black or white, all or none, go or no-go. Theres gray in
everything,
Post by Rob Duncan
especially in my mind after about the 15th reply. ;^)
Rob
Rob

If a band plays a cover and it sounds like they could have written it
then they're playing it, simply because they want to and it's fun. It
doesn't mean they're playing it because they don't have a better song.
Also big name bands get bored out their minds playing the same songs
over and over again on tour and it's a bit of fresh air to play
something new.

I will fully agree with you however that I have seen bands who played a
cover note for note and it definetly gave off the impression that if
they had a better original to play they wouldn't or shouldn't play note
for note covers.

The instance I'm thinking of was a female fronted rock band with so-so
songs that played an Alanis Morrisette song note for note. It was
pretty predicatable.

So I agree with you somewhat. I just thought you needed to clarify
your statement.

Chris
unknown
2005-03-30 13:51:45 UTC
Permalink
covers pay the freight so that the bar owner will hire you
and you slip more and more originals in as you get a following.

Steve £

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:09:04 -0800, "John Wheaton"
Post by John Wheaton
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs?
Even if you`re in a band that mainly does original tunes, covers are VERY
important. If you remember back when Van Halen 1st broke out, it was the
cover that first got airplay. It IS and easier way for radio program
directors to figure out what your band is if you have a few covers that you
do your way. Do them in the style of your band, so it sounds like it`s an
original, just like VH did with "You Really Got Me".
See ya,
John
--
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Guncho
2005-03-30 17:11:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs? My 5-piece has varying philophies.
The drummer and I want to do a cover. We grew up going to concerts all
the time and hearing a cover was ALWAYS part of the show. Even with
some of the bigger, more prominant national acts we went to see, there
always existed a cover or two. For the drummer though it's like a
tribute to the music he likes, listens to and enjoys. I want to do
them simply because they're fun and I think every rock set,
especially
Post by Bazooka-Joe
by a relatively unknown band such as us, should have one. As an
attender, I always appreciated having a song or two in the set that I
did know, and that everyone could grove to and sing along with. The
bass player is just a very laid back easy going guy and will play
anything the group decides on. Though if he had his druthers I think
we'd cover a Rush tune. The lead singer sees the business end
(marketability, audience participation, and energy levels all
contribute to the success of a show and your sales numbers). But our
keyboard player (an integral part of our sound and business) is totally
opposed to it. He believes playing a cover is akin to saying, "we're
incapable of writing another good original, so we thought we'd play
someone else's music." To the rest of us, he just doesn't get it.
Is
Post by Bazooka-Joe
this idealogy common? I was flabbergasted when I first heard it.
And
Post by Bazooka-Joe
he's passionate about it too. I happen to know the opinions of the
others and he's agreed to concede if he's out numbered, which he is.
Anyone else come across this?
I agree with what a lot of people are saying. If you can make a cover
sound like you wrote it, then do it. However if it sounds like you're
playing a Rush song note for note and trying to sound like them, then
that diminishes your originals.

Chris
Bazooka-Joe
2005-03-30 22:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Thought I should follow up with you all, since this was a pretty
heavily responded to post. Yesterday we brought up the subject at
practice. The keyboard player came around with almost no push-back at
all. Even helped us pick a song. Looks like we've all been maturing
over the last year or so. :)

Thanks again.

:Bazooka-joe
Gotta B. Kidding
2005-03-31 03:18:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs? My 5-piece has varying philophies.
The drummer and I want to do a cover.
Cover the Rush tune :) You won't need a keyboard player for that.
StratMatt
2005-04-02 09:00:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gotta B. Kidding
Post by Bazooka-Joe
Anyone here in a band/musical group in which there exist differing
opinions on playing cover songs? My 5-piece has varying philophies.
The drummer and I want to do a cover.
Cover the Rush tune :) You won't need a keyboard player for that.
If you cover a Rush tune I want to know when you'll be playing Seattle!

Actually I'd want to know when you are playing here regardless!




Matt
PunkAssBitch
2005-04-03 23:32:44 UTC
Permalink
Thought I should follow up with you all, since this was a pretty
heavily responded to post. Yesterday we brought up the subject at
practice. The keyboard player came around with almost no push-back at
all. Even helped us pick a song. Looks like we've all been maturing
over the last year or so. :)

Thanks again.

:Bazooka-joe

Hey,
I've been in bands for decades. I've found that if you play all originals,
you most likely live in a college town, or large metro area. There you will
find venues to play in. Otherwise you are in a cover band that may or may
not play some originals.
For the most people want to party on Friday and Saturday nights. They want
to dance and hear you play something they like. (That's why they yell out
names of songs, or come up to you on break and ask you to play something).
I am in the south, what gets us back into venues for a second gig is the
ability to hold a crowd. I think this translates to anywhere you might play,
and any type of band you might be. If you hold the crowd there, and make
them thirsty so they buy drinks, the owner will have you back. The crowd
being into you and giving you that positive energy makes you relax and get
into it and do a better job. That's what I am in it for.

So...
Do what you want to do and the day you are playing a showcase and you know
there is a scout in the audience do all originals and come back on the
encore and cover something that you can kick ass at and amaze people with.

Later
PunkAssBitch

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