Fender Bassman '59 vs '65 Fender Super Reverb

[acmz]

hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

[Jim]

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

How much will you be paying?

SERIOUSLY consider buying a silver face Super Reverb. They can be had
for less than the cost of a new reissue, and they are a much better amp.
If you get one that works right, sounds good, and keeps sounding good
after a half hour of hard play, it may need no immediate work at all.

Reissues take a big hit when you walk out the door, then continue to
depreciate.

Silver Face models are reasonably priced, and will continue to appreciate.

But yeah, original Black Face demand STOOPID money. But if you were to
A/B a decent Silver Face against a reissue black face, you might be
surprised at what sounds better to you. And you gotta know which is
built better, right? Heck, a lot of guys prefer the "balls" of the
silver face over original black face amps.

I can tell you this, the reissue black face Super Reverb sounds THIN AND
WIMPY compared to mine: http://www.timeelect.com/sjsr.htm And it cost
similar money AFTER restoration, because I got a deal on the used amp.

After the eye ball test for cosmetics, look at transformer codes to
verify they are original. Look at the tubes, especially preamp, to see
if they are original (mine are, and still test good!). Then turn it on.
Take it off standby and notice the level of idle hum. Then play it
HARD, listening to all speakers for odd tones. Play it long to check
for any weirdness. Then try to work a deal on the best on you can afford.

You owe it to yourself to A/B them against the reissue. Don't be
discouraged by "vintage prices" at the shops, you may have to eBay,
craigslist, or otherwise hunt for a while.

If you are in the U.S., prices are softening a bit on the used
person-to-person market, even in Seattle (where the economy is still
strong). Discretionary buying is down, so we're going into a buyers market.

[acmz]

look at transformer codes to verify they are original.

How can I verify they are originale? what I should see on them?

[Jim]

Post by acmz

look at transformer codes to verify they are original.

How can I verify they are originale? what I should see on them?

Look at the pictures of my amp, and you'll see the codes. If you post
the codes, techs can tell you. And I forgot to include speaker codes...

On my amp, you'll notice http://www.timeelect.com/sjsr.htm

Speaker code: 137 7505 The 137 means made by CTS, 75 is 1975, 05 means
the fifth week of the year.

You'll also see codes on the transformers. You'll see a 5-04 (fourth
week of 1974), 4-36 (36th week of 1974), and a 432 (32nd week of 1974).
On all of these, you see a 606. That's for the manufacturer,
Woodward-Schumacher, who made them for Fender. ...and you'll see the
Fender stock number.

[Jim]

Post by Jim

Post by acmz

look at transformer codes to verify they are original.

How can I verify they are originale? what I should see on them?

Look at the pictures of my amp, and you'll see the codes. If you post
the codes, techs can tell you. And I forgot to include speaker codes...
On my amp, you'll notice http://www.timeelect.com/sjsr.htm
Speaker code: 137 7505 The 137 means made by CTS, 75 is 1975, 05 means
the fifth week of the year.
You'll also see codes on the transformers. You'll see a 5-04 (fourth
week of 1974),

DOH! Fourth week of 1975.


4-36 (36th week of 1974), and a 432 (32nd week of 1974).

Post by Jim
On all of these, you see a 606. That's for the manufacturer,
Woodward-Schumacher, who made them for Fender. ...and you'll see the
Fender stock number.

[Les Cargill]

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Try them. A silverface Super ain't that much, and yes, they
are better.

--
Les Cargill

[Peter Pan]

They're both good amps. six in one hand half a dozen in the other. I'd
buy the first one you can find for a good price

[Blunt A. Blaze]

Post by Peter Pan
They're both good amps. six in one hand half a dozen in the other. I'd
buy the first one you can find for a good price

A+ post Pan! :-) mvm
http://tinyurl.com/32j32m
'59 Bassman R.I. (1999 / 5F6A Tubed w/ "Winged C" 6L6GC's, and N.O.S.
Mullard GZ34 Rectifier and preamp tubes, except 1st pre-amp tube: 12AY7
eqiv. (lower gain) = new Cryovac'd GE 5 Star). Also, I put 6 coats of
tinted, Zinser Bullseye shellac on her.

[Blunt A. Blaze]

Post by Blunt A. Blaze

Post by Peter Pan
They're both good amps. six in one hand half a dozen in the other. I'd
buy the first one you can find for a good price

A+ post Pan! :-) mvm
http://tinyurl.com/32j32m
'59 Bassman R.I. (1999 / 5F6A Tubed w/ "Winged C" 6L6GC's, and N.O.S.
Mullard GZ34 Rectifier and preamp tubes, except 1st pre-amp tube: 12AY7
eqiv. (lower gain) = new Cryovac'd GE 5 Star*). Also, I put 6 coats of
tinted, Zinser Bullseye shellac on her.

* http://painting.blaindenterprise.com/plate.html

[Sac Dave]

HOPE HOPE

[WB]

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Any 70's era SF is worth 2x more than the re-issues,
and will keep their value ( likely go up too ! ).
Even ebait inflated prices may seem high, but re-issues
lose value as soon as you take them home.

[Blunt A. Blaze]

Post by WB

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Any 70's era SF is worth 2x more than the re-issues,
and will keep their value ( likely go up too ! ).
Even ebait inflated prices may seem high, but re-issues
lose value as soon as you take them home.

So do most cars- but keep them maintained and they'll get you around.
;-) mvm
http://tinyurl.com/2hj395

[Don Evans]

Post by WB

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Any 70's era SF is worth 2x more than the re-issues,
and will keep their value ( likely go up too ! ).
Even ebait inflated prices may seem high, but re-issues
lose value as soon as you take them home.

Right now, ebay prices seem to be lower on the silver faces than on the
reissue, and not too much higher even for the blackfaces. If you have the
cash, it's a good used market right now.

Don

[Jim]

Post by Don Evans

Post by WB

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Any 70's era SF is worth 2x more than the re-issues,
and will keep their value ( likely go up too ! ).
Even ebait inflated prices may seem high, but re-issues
lose value as soon as you take them home.

Right now, ebay prices seem to be lower on the silver faces than on the
reissue, and not too much higher even for the blackfaces. If you have the
cash, it's a good used market right now.
Don

Economy weak = buyer's market. Don't blink.

[Don Evans]

Post by Jim

Post by Don Evans

Post by WB

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Any 70's era SF is worth 2x more than the re-issues,
and will keep their value ( likely go up too ! ).
Even ebait inflated prices may seem high, but re-issues
lose value as soon as you take them home.

Right now, ebay prices seem to be lower on the silver faces than on
the reissue, and not too much higher even for the blackfaces. If
you have the cash, it's a good used market right now.
Don

Economy weak = buyer's market. Don't blink.

Zactly!

[[e-mail]]

Post by Don Evans

Post by WB

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Any 70's era SF is worth 2x more than the re-issues,
and will keep their value ( likely go up too ! ).
Even ebait inflated prices may seem high, but re-issues
lose value as soon as you take them home.

Right now, ebay prices seem to be lower on the silver faces than on
the reissue, and not too much higher even for the blackfaces.  If
you have the cash, it's a good used market right now.
Don

Economy weak = buyer's market.  Don't blink.

Zactly!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

they both suck, get a Fractal Axe FX instead. It can do them both and
do them better.

www.romeorose.com
Romeo Rose

[n***@wt.net]

Post by WB

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Any 70's era SF is worth 2x more than the re-issues,
and will keep their value ( likely go up too ! ).
Even ebait inflated prices may seem high, but re-issues
lose value as soon as you take them home.

Heck, I bought a 77 super reverb, "one of the last 45 watters",
with a complete cap job and blackface already done, for $406.00 on
flea-bay, and I had to drive to pick it up in Austin TX. I live in
Houston,
so no big deal.. Shipping a super reverb is half the battle... :(
I saved a lot of money by being my own shipper.
And the amp kicks ass. It's too bad that I rarely use it.. :(
But I keep it around in case I need an amp for some dive jam.
One heck of an amp for a dive jam... :) I like to sit it on it's
stand, tilted back, and facing backwards towards the wall.
Eats up some sound, and I can crank it a tad higher, which
adds mo tube distortion.. Both the super reverb and bassman
are quite clean when not cranked.

[WB]

Post by n***@wt.net

Post by WB
Even ebait inflated prices may seem high, but re-issues
lose value as soon as you take them home.

Heck, I bought a 77 super reverb, "one of the last 45 watters",

That kind of defeats the "Super" name ... What is the circuit
from the rear label ?

Post by n***@wt.net
with a complete cap job and blackface already done, for $406.00 on
flea-bay, and I had to drive to pick it up in Austin TX. I live in
Houston,

well .. a *true* BF is replacing the OT .. and most of the final,
and removing parts ;-}...


H ? 77318 bro !

[n***@wt.net]

Post by n***@wt.net

Post by WB
Even ebait inflated prices may seem high, but re-issues
lose value as soon as you take them home.

Heck, I bought a 77 super reverb, "one of the last 45 watters",

  That kind of defeats the "Super" name  ...  What is the circuit
  from the rear label ?

How you figure? Other than an ultralinear, which is 70w, I never
knew they made any in other than 45w.
I don't see a circuit number, but the serial # that I can see on
the back chassis is A736977
The original circuit should be pretty much identical to this:
http://www.schematicheaven.com/fenderamps/cbs_45w_mstrvol_pullsw_super-pro-bmstr_rev.pdf

Post by n***@wt.net
with a complete cap job and blackface already done, for $406.00 on
flea-bay, and I had to drive to pick it up in Austin TX.  I live in
Houston,

  well .. a *true* BF is replacing the OT .. and most of the final,
  and removing parts ;-}...
  H ? 77318 bro !

Dunno, I don't hear of too many replacing the OT, and I can't see
much point really.. Some parts have been removed on mine.
IE: there is no more master volume pot. It's gone.
I'm not too picky really as far as it being exactly like a BF..
As long as it browns the food..
The ultralinear came out I guess in late 77, being I've heard
of 77 ultralinear SR's. It's not as desirable in general as the 45 w
version, unless you want the extra clean headroom.
The ultralinear super reverb is a pretty good amp I think.
Not the same as a 45 watter, but it's better than a lot of
the new stuff coming out. To me it's kind of like mixing a
SR with a TR..

[WB]

Post by n***@wt.net
How you figure? Other than an ultralinear, which is 70w, I never
knew they made any in other than 45w.
To me it's kind of like mixing a
SR with a TR..

You pointed to a Super Pro ... 2x6L6 . Not many of those
around AFAIK . I sort of associate *Super* with Twin variety .. 4x6L6.

what' your zip in H area ?

[Sonny]

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Apples and Oranges.
If anyone disagrees,, well,, they're just plain stupid ;-)
Or maybe they're gonna tell us about the vibrato on the Bassman?? and the
reverb??
Sonny

[WB]

Post by Sonny

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Apples and Oranges.
If anyone disagrees,, well,, they're just plain stupid ;-)
Or maybe they're gonna tell us about the vibrato on the Bassman?? and the
reverb??
Sonny

The *normal* channel on a BF bassman == bandmaster ab763.



;-)

[Don Evans]

Post by WB

Post by Sonny

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

Apples and Oranges.
If anyone disagrees,, well,, they're just plain stupid ;-)
Or maybe they're gonna tell us about the vibrato on the Bassman??
and the reverb??
Sonny

The *normal* channel on a BF bassman == bandmaster ab763.
;-)

ABF Bassman isn't a 4x10 .. methinks he's referring to the tweed reissue.

Don

[Squier]

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

well I can't say about reliability of PCB reissues -
they might be good - they might be bad - but if anything
does go wrong the newer Fender PCB based amps are a pain
to work on.

That being said - the actual Silverface amps (not reissues)
definitely have tonal differences. The Bassman is a much
warmer sounding amp (the Bandmaster however can be brightened
up a bit with the bright switch). Anyways, the Bassman has
a much warmer sound than the Super Reverb. The Super Reverb
is a really chimey amp (or it naturally lends itself to this).
Real nice and sparkly/spanky. Personally if the reissues are
anything like the blackface/silverface tonally, then I would
pick a Super rather than a Bassman. Yes you can still get nice
tones out of a Bassman - but don't expect the bright cutting
tones and chime/spank out of it as you would a Super.

Hey - tone is subjective - but reliability is not -
if you can get silverface amps. They are handwired
point to point amps from the 70's and 80's and if you
search around, there are still many very good condition ones
that will cost you LESS than the modern reissues.
get yourself a silverface. you'll be glad you did.

Oh if you can do with a 2x10 and 35-40 watts (6L6)
then check out the silverface Vibrolux amps. (Not the reissue
or current custom model which sounds nothing like the real deal).
That 2x10 Vibrolux may be all you ever really need and it's
in a combo not much bigger than a Deluxe Reverb. Great amp.

wish I could help you more.
Oh yeah - a silverface amp is going to still be 25+ years old.
But even if it winds up needing some new caps.. etc.. it is still
a much better amp and much better overall deal than any PCB based reissue.


that's my 2 cents.

[Blunt A. Blaze]

Post by Squier

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

well I can't say about reliability of PCB reissues -
they might be good - they might be bad - but if anything
does go wrong the newer Fender PCB based amps are a pain
to work on.
That being said - the actual Silverface amps (not reissues)
definitely have tonal differences. The Bassman is a much
warmer sounding amp (the Bandmaster however can be brightened
up a bit with the bright switch). Anyways, the Bassman has
a much warmer sound than the Super Reverb. The Super Reverb
is a really chimey amp (or it naturally lends itself to this).
Real nice and sparkly/spanky. Personally if the reissues are
anything like the blackface/silverface tonally, then I would
pick a Super rather than a Bassman. Yes you can still get nice
tones out of a Bassman - but don't expect the bright cutting
tones and chime/spank out of it as you would a Super.
Hey - tone is subjective - but reliability is not -
if you can get silverface amps. They are handwired
point to point amps from the 70's and 80's and if you
search around, there are still many very good condition ones
that will cost you LESS than the modern reissues.
get yourself a silverface. you'll be glad you did.
Oh if you can do with a 2x10 and 35-40 watts (6L6)
then check out the silverface Vibrolux amps. (Not the reissue
or current custom model which sounds nothing like the real deal).
That 2x10 Vibrolux may be all you ever really need and it's
in a combo not much bigger than a Deluxe Reverb. Great amp.
wish I could help you more.
Oh yeah - a silverface amp is going to still be 25+ years old.
But even if it winds up needing some new caps.. etc.. it is still
a much better amp and much better overall deal than any PCB based reissue.
that's my 2 cents.

"...Yes you can still get nice tones out of a Bassman..."

;-) mvm

[Jim]

Post by Blunt A. Blaze

Post by Squier

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

well I can't say about reliability of PCB reissues -
they might be good - they might be bad - but if anything
does go wrong the newer Fender PCB based amps are a pain
to work on.
That being said - the actual Silverface amps (not reissues)
definitely have tonal differences. The Bassman is a much
warmer sounding amp (the Bandmaster however can be brightened
up a bit with the bright switch). Anyways, the Bassman has
a much warmer sound than the Super Reverb. The Super Reverb
is a really chimey amp (or it naturally lends itself to this).
Real nice and sparkly/spanky. Personally if the reissues are
anything like the blackface/silverface tonally, then I would
pick a Super rather than a Bassman. Yes you can still get nice
tones out of a Bassman - but don't expect the bright cutting
tones and chime/spank out of it as you would a Super.
Hey - tone is subjective - but reliability is not -
if you can get silverface amps. They are handwired
point to point amps from the 70's and 80's and if you
search around, there are still many very good condition ones
that will cost you LESS than the modern reissues.
get yourself a silverface. you'll be glad you did.
Oh if you can do with a 2x10 and 35-40 watts (6L6)
then check out the silverface Vibrolux amps. (Not the reissue
or current custom model which sounds nothing like the real deal).
That 2x10 Vibrolux may be all you ever really need and it's
in a combo not much bigger than a Deluxe Reverb. Great amp.
wish I could help you more.
Oh yeah - a silverface amp is going to still be 25+ years old.
But even if it winds up needing some new caps.. etc.. it is still
a much better amp and much better overall deal than any PCB based reissue.
that's my 2 cents.

"...Yes you can still get nice tones out of a Bassman..."
;-) mvm

But where's the reverb? Tremelo?

Ah, we know it's all a matter of taste. I've got a nice Super Reverb.
If I had more room, I'd most definitely BUILD myself a reproduction
tweed Bassman 4x10.

Another guy's priority could be the opposite, like Marc's. They are
both GREAT amps, just different.

I will say that I preferred the early Bassman to the Bandmaster that I
used to play on. But I was 14 years old, and didn't understand
impedance matching, bias, tube matching... One of the amps could've had
weaker tubes, improper bias... and I wouldn't have known the difference.

They both belonged to the 19 year old drummer in the band. FREE amps to
me, as long as I was in the band. But being a rather low budget ordeal,
we also used one of the two as the PA head, and he liked the Bassman for
PA! So I usually used the Bandmaster if we were playing at volume.

[Jim]

Post by Squier

Post by acmz
hi, I'd like to receive your opinion about the comparison between
these two 4x10 amps, referring to the reissues ('cause I'm not
millionaire)

well I can't say about reliability of PCB reissues -
they might be good - they might be bad - but if anything
does go wrong the newer Fender PCB based amps are a pain
to work on.
That being said - the actual Silverface amps (not reissues)
definitely have tonal differences. The Bassman is a much
warmer sounding amp (the Bandmaster however can be brightened
up a bit with the bright switch).

I think it's bass being blocked in the Black Face. Not lack of highs in
the Silver Face. At least that's what I hear in the Super Reverbs.

Post by Squier
Anyways, the Bassman has
a much warmer sound than the Super Reverb. The Super Reverb
is a really chimey amp (or it naturally lends itself to this).
Real nice and sparkly/spanky.

It definitely has more potential in that area. But if you want it
darker, don't use the bright and turn down the treble. If you want more
gain and "warmth," turn up the mids, keep bass rather low.

Post by Squier
Personally if the reissues are
anything like the blackface/silverface tonally, then I would
pick a Super rather than a Bassman. Yes you can still get nice
tones out of a Bassman - but don't expect the bright cutting
tones and chime/spank out of it as you would a Super.
Hey - tone is subjective - but reliability is not -
if you can get silverface amps. They are handwired
point to point amps from the 70's and 80's and if you
search around,

well, eyelets on tag board, if that qualifies. When I think "point to
point," I think heavy use of tube sockets, with terminal strips as
needed. Like this: Loading Image...

Here's typical Fender eyelet construction (from my amp):
Loading Image... and
Loading Image...

Post by Squier
there are still many very good condition ones
that will cost you LESS than the modern reissues.
get yourself a silverface. you'll be glad you did.

I agree. In the early 70's I was in high school "garage bands" that did
school gigs and some parties... I played on either early SF bassman, or
early SF Bandmaster. They were nice, but... NOTHING like the Super
Reverb. I love it (of course Rich Koerner made sure of that).

...and all that time I was playing the Bassman or Bandmaster... I was
lusting for the Marshall that I bought a few years later.

Then, having only the Marshall (JMP 2204), I started lusting for a nice
clean tone. But I went SUPER REVERB, not Bassman or Bandmaster. It
just offers so much more of what *I* want to hear.

Post by Squier
Oh if you can do with a 2x10 and 35-40 watts (6L6)
then check out the silverface Vibrolux amps. (Not the reissue
or current custom model which sounds nothing like the real deal).
That 2x10 Vibrolux may be all you ever really need and it's
in a combo not much bigger than a Deluxe Reverb. Great amp.
wish I could help you more.
Oh yeah - a silverface amp is going to still be 25+ years old.
But even if it winds up needing some new caps.. etc.. it is still
a much better amp and much better overall deal than any PCB based reissue.
that's my 2 cents.