Coil tap a P100?

[Tony Done]

Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.

Tony D

[b***@techie.com]

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.
Tony D

I don't think you'd want to. I believe its a dummy coil design and the
coils are usually wound super hot to overcome the effect of the dummy
coil. Plus, you'd have to make sure the phase would agree with the
other p-up if there is one once the dummy coil is grounded. If its a
stacked bucker then you can ground either coil with no issues.

I did it once with a Dimarzio HS3. It was just OK.

[Les Cargill]

Post by b***@techie.com

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.
Tony D

I don't think you'd want to. I believe its a dummy coil design

Is it? I had understood it was a full humbucker....

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/articles/blue_gtr/gtr/paul_jr.pdf

Post by b***@techie.com
and the
coils are usually wound super hot to overcome the effect of the dummy
coil. Plus, you'd have to make sure the phase would agree with the
other p-up if there is one once the dummy coil is grounded. If its a
stacked bucker then you can ground either coil with no issues.
I did it once with a Dimarzio HS3. It was just OK.

--
Les Cargill

[RichL]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by b***@techie.com

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one
exposed wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want
to do it, just curious.
Tony D

I don't think you'd want to. I believe its a dummy coil design

Is it? I had understood it was a full humbucker....
http://www.blueguitar.org/new/articles/blue_gtr/gtr/paul_jr.pdf

Heh....funny that we found the same article...
Anyway according to that, it's a bucker with the coils connected in
parallel.

[M®M]

See: "Cool Little Knob"

www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk

Review is on pg. 90, June '09 edn. of

_Guitar_&_Bass_Magazine_

M

[M®M]

Post by M®M
See: "Cool Little Knob"
www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk
Review is on pg. 90, June '09 edn. of
_Guitar_&_Bass_Magazine_
M

http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/cool_little_knob.html

[RichL]

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one
exposed wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to
do it, just curious.

Tony, I found this, which may be of interest:

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/articles/blue_gtr/gtr/paul_jr.pdf

At least according to this, the P100 has two coils wired in parallel,
and the resistance of either coil by itself is rather high.

[Meat Plow]

On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:36:03 GMT, "Tony Done"

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.
Tony D

Only reason I can think to do this is to ground the bottom coil. You
end up with more of a single coil sound and some hum but at a lower
output (my guess).

[Tony Done]

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.
Tony D

Thanks for the replies. It didn't even cross my mind that they might be
parallel-wired. Tapping it clearly isn't going to serve any useful purpose
for me, they will just go from warm to hot mud. The individual coils must be
*big*, about 19K for the bridge. Something for further speculation if anyone
is interested. The bass response is very strong compared with other pickups
I have, in fact the low-mid/bass response is the best thing about these
pickups. Also, it is also very noisy wrt MV lamps. I've mucked about with
this noise problem before, and it isn't related to humbucking-type noise
cancellation, but to shielding; many of my (shielded) single coils are
silent in my lounge room, and these P100s are the noisiest. I might pull
them out again and have another look at the wiring, and the possibility of
shielding.

Tony D

[Les Cargill]

Post by Tony Done

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one
exposed wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to
do it, just curious.
Tony D

Thanks for the replies. It didn't even cross my mind that they might be
parallel-wired.

How is that then humbucking? They would have to have exactly the same
quantity of noise picked up in both coils.

Post by Tony Done
Tapping it clearly isn't going to serve any useful
purpose for me, they will just go from warm to hot mud. The individual
coils must be *big*, about 19K for the bridge. Something for further
speculation if anyone is interested. The bass response is very strong
compared with other pickups I have, in fact the low-mid/bass response is
the best thing about these pickups.

P90 can be like that too. I have a humbucker form-factor single
coil in my Epi Les Paul, and it can get bassy.

Post by Tony Done
Also, it is also very noisy wrt MV
lamps. I've mucked about with this noise problem before, and it isn't
related to humbucking-type noise cancellation, but to shielding; many of
my (shielded) single coils are silent in my lounge room, and these P100s
are the noisiest. I might pull them out again and have another look at
the wiring, and the possibility of shielding.
Tony D

--
Les Cargill

[RichL]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Tony Done

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one
exposed wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to
do it, just curious.
Tony D

Thanks for the replies. It didn't even cross my mind that they might
be parallel-wired.

How is that then humbucking? They would have to have exactly the same
quantity of noise picked up in both coils.

But the noise induced in one coil is still out of phase with that
induced in the other. They cancel. It doesn't really matter whether
the coils are connected in series or in parallel, the humbucking
principle still works the same way. One coil is RWRP (reverse-wound,
reverse-polarity) relative to the other. The desired signal depends on
the direction of the magnetic field and the noise doesn't (since it's
sensed by the pickup acting as a loop antenna).

[Les Cargill]

Post by RichL

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Tony Done

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one
exposed wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to
do it, just curious.
Tony D

Thanks for the replies. It didn't even cross my mind that they might
be parallel-wired.

How is that then humbucking? They would have to have exactly the same
quantity of noise picked up in both coils.

But the noise induced in one coil is still out of phase with that
induced in the other. They cancel. It doesn't really matter whether
the coils are connected in series or in parallel, the humbucking
principle still works the same way. One coil is RWRP (reverse-wound,
reverse-polarity) relative to the other. The desired signal depends on
the direction of the magnetic field and the noise doesn't (since it's
sensed by the pickup acting as a loop antenna).

Wait - Strat pickups are parallel, right?

Never mind.

--
Les Cargill

[RichL]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by RichL

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Tony Done

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one
exposed wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want
to do it, just curious.
Tony D

Thanks for the replies. It didn't even cross my mind that they
might be parallel-wired.

How is that then humbucking? They would have to have exactly the
same quantity of noise picked up in both coils.

But the noise induced in one coil is still out of phase with that
induced in the other. They cancel. It doesn't really matter whether
the coils are connected in series or in parallel, the humbucking
principle still works the same way. One coil is RWRP (reverse-wound,
reverse-polarity) relative to the other. The desired signal depends
on the direction of the magnetic field and the noise doesn't (since
it's sensed by the pickup acting as a loop antenna).

Wait - Strat pickups are parallel, right?
Never mind.

A single Strat pickup is just one coil, so it's neither series nor
parallel. However, modern Strats come with the middle pickup RWRP
relative to the others, so that if you engage, say, the bridge and
middle pickups together they're humbucking (and yes, the Strat wiring
connects the pickups in parallel).

Now bring those two pickups into close proximity spatially and you've
got yourself a P100.

[b***@techie.com]

Post by RichL
A single Strat pickup is just one coil, so it's neither series nor
parallel.  However, modern Strats come with the middle pickup RWRP
relative to the others, so that if you engage, say, the bridge and
middle pickups together they're humbucking (and yes, the Strat wiring
connects the pickups in parallel).
Now bring those two pickups into close proximity spatially and you've
got yourself a P100

So *both* coils are active in those then? All the info I'm seeing says
they're dunny coil designs. I have a Duncan hum cancelling 90 in my
LPSDC and its of the dummy coil variety.

[Tony Done]

Post by RichL
A single Strat pickup is just one coil, so it's neither series nor
parallel. However, modern Strats come with the middle pickup RWRP
relative to the others, so that if you engage, say, the bridge and
middle pickups together they're humbucking (and yes, the Strat wiring
connects the pickups in parallel).
Now bring those two pickups into close proximity spatially and you've
got yourself a P100

So *both* coils are active in those then? All the info I'm seeing says
they're dunny coil designs. I have a Duncan hum cancelling 90 in my
LPSDC and its of the dummy coil variety.

Could it be a question of semantics? When I looked at my P100 it had two
coils stacked with alnico bars sandwiched between them. The pole pieces went
all the way through both coils, producing a "rwrp" effect in the lower coil.
I would call that humbucking, as both coils were clearly within the magnetic
field of pole pieces and strings. I suppose you could say it was a dummy
coil, but I see it as different from the stacked coil designs where the pole
pieces are alnico slugs that only extend into the top coil.

Tony D

[Tony Done]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Tony Done

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one
exposed wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do
it, just curious.
Tony D

Thanks for the replies. It didn't even cross my mind that they might be
parallel-wired.

How is that then humbucking? They would have to have exactly the same
quantity of noise picked up in both coils.

There seems to be a lot of confusion over what "humbucking" does. My
experience is that humbucking, either as matched single coils or as an
uncovered hb pickup reduces the low frequency mains hum the comes for eg
amps. This is easy to demonstrate. If you approach your amp with a
non-humbucking pickup, you can hear the mains hum increase, if you switch to
humbucking most of that noise is immediately cancelled. OTOH, the kind of
noise that comes from MV lamps, a high pitch rattle, seems to have nothing
to do with humbucking pickups. I had discussion of this with Keith (RIP) and
some others a while back, and actually went and tested it in my workshop
with its resident amp, which has fluoro light hum. Unfortunately I can't
remember the details, but putting grounded shielding around SC pickups
eliminated the high pitched rattle, depending on the orientation to the
pickup relative the amp and fluor lights; again the was not related to
whether the pickup was humbucking or not. The effect of shielding is evident
in my three lap steels that have "string-through" single coil pickups, two
resos that have single coils under the coverplate, and the four GFS
part-covered (Rick style) single coils. All are more or less silent in my
lounge room. It makes me think that part of the original Gibson humbucking
concept was the pickup cover, which has now been eliminated in many designs;
I believe this is a very useful insight.

In the spirit of scientific enquiry I just plugged my bari into the lounge
room amp. It has SD Jazz (uncovered) humbuckers; the MV lamp rattle is very
pronounced, and it is eliminated by touching the strings to ground them. -
Grounding or winding the treble off always seems to fix this problem. -
OTOH, bringing the guitar closer to the amp does not increase the mains hum.

Tony D

[Meat Plow]

On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:22:14 GMT, "Tony Done"

Post by Tony Done

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.
Tony D

Thanks for the replies. It didn't even cross my mind that they might be
parallel-wired. Tapping it clearly isn't going to serve any useful purpose
for me, they will just go from warm to hot mud. The individual coils must be
*big*, about 19K for the bridge. Something for further speculation if anyone
is interested. The bass response is very strong compared with other pickups
I have, in fact the low-mid/bass response is the best thing about these
pickups. Also, it is also very noisy wrt MV lamps. I've mucked about with
this noise problem before, and it isn't related to humbucking-type noise
cancellation, but to shielding; many of my (shielded) single coils are
silent in my lounge room, and these P100s are the noisiest. I might pull
them out again and have another look at the wiring, and the possibility of
shielding.
Tony D

My 56 re-issue LP had P100's. I yanked them and put DiMarzio buckers
in it that would fit in the holes. From a distance you couldn't tell
cuz they were the same color but you could see 12 pole screws on each
up close. Took them out and put the 100's back in when I sold it.

[Tony Done]

Post by Meat Plow
On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:22:14 GMT, "Tony Done"

Post by Tony Done

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.
Tony D

Thanks for the replies. It didn't even cross my mind that they might be
parallel-wired. Tapping it clearly isn't going to serve any useful purpose
for me, they will just go from warm to hot mud. The individual coils must be
*big*, about 19K for the bridge. Something for further speculation if anyone
is interested. The bass response is very strong compared with other pickups
I have, in fact the low-mid/bass response is the best thing about these
pickups. Also, it is also very noisy wrt MV lamps. I've mucked about with
this noise problem before, and it isn't related to humbucking-type noise
cancellation, but to shielding; many of my (shielded) single coils are
silent in my lounge room, and these P100s are the noisiest. I might pull
them out again and have another look at the wiring, and the possibility of
shielding.
Tony D

My 56 re-issue LP had P100's. I yanked them and put DiMarzio buckers
in it that would fit in the holes. From a distance you couldn't tell
cuz they were the same color but you could see 12 pole screws on each
up close. Took them out and put the 100's back in when I sold it.

I've seen those DiMarzio pickups but never tried one. How did you think they
compared with the P100s? - I'm not a fan of hot humbuckers.

FWIW, I checked the resistance of the two pickups yesterday, they were both
9.04k ohm at the output sockets. That seems not a bad set up to me, parallel
wiring at that resistance, like having thicker wire on a single coil. I
reckon it could be lower though, my prewar horseshoe uses 38g wire and has a
resistance of less than 2K ohms. Nothing wrong with either its tone or
output, huge coil though.

Tony D

[Meat Plow]

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:57:57 GMT, "Tony Done"

Post by Tony Done

Post by Meat Plow
On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:22:14 GMT, "Tony Done"

Post by Tony Done

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.
Tony D

Thanks for the replies. It didn't even cross my mind that they might be
parallel-wired. Tapping it clearly isn't going to serve any useful purpose
for me, they will just go from warm to hot mud. The individual coils must be
*big*, about 19K for the bridge. Something for further speculation if anyone
is interested. The bass response is very strong compared with other pickups
I have, in fact the low-mid/bass response is the best thing about these
pickups. Also, it is also very noisy wrt MV lamps. I've mucked about with
this noise problem before, and it isn't related to humbucking-type noise
cancellation, but to shielding; many of my (shielded) single coils are
silent in my lounge room, and these P100s are the noisiest. I might pull
them out again and have another look at the wiring, and the possibility of
shielding.
Tony D

My 56 re-issue LP had P100's. I yanked them and put DiMarzio buckers
in it that would fit in the holes. From a distance you couldn't tell
cuz they were the same color but you could see 12 pole screws on each
up close. Took them out and put the 100's back in when I sold it.

I've seen those DiMarzio pickups but never tried one. How did you think they
compared with the P100s? - I'm not a fan of hot humbuckers.

Not really a hot pickup. Nice pinch harmonics.

Post by Tony Done
FWIW, I checked the resistance of the two pickups yesterday, they were both
9.04k ohm at the output sockets. That seems not a bad set up to me, parallel
wiring at that resistance, like having thicker wire on a single coil. I
reckon it could be lower though, my prewar horseshoe uses 38g wire and has a
resistance of less than 2K ohms. Nothing wrong with either its tone or
output, huge coil though.
Tony D

[Meat Plow]

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:57:57 GMT, "Tony Done"

Post by Tony Done

Post by Meat Plow
On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:22:14 GMT, "Tony Done"

Post by Tony Done

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.
Tony D

Thanks for the replies. It didn't even cross my mind that they might be
parallel-wired. Tapping it clearly isn't going to serve any useful purpose
for me, they will just go from warm to hot mud. The individual coils must be
*big*, about 19K for the bridge. Something for further speculation if anyone
is interested. The bass response is very strong compared with other pickups
I have, in fact the low-mid/bass response is the best thing about these
pickups. Also, it is also very noisy wrt MV lamps. I've mucked about with
this noise problem before, and it isn't related to humbucking-type noise
cancellation, but to shielding; many of my (shielded) single coils are
silent in my lounge room, and these P100s are the noisiest. I might pull
them out again and have another look at the wiring, and the possibility of
shielding.
Tony D

My 56 re-issue LP had P100's. I yanked them and put DiMarzio buckers
in it that would fit in the holes. From a distance you couldn't tell
cuz they were the same color but you could see 12 pole screws on each
up close. Took them out and put the 100's back in when I sold it.

I've seen those DiMarzio pickups but never tried one. How did you think they
compared with the P100s? - I'm not a fan of hot humbuckers.
FWIW, I checked the resistance of the two pickups yesterday, they were both
9.04k ohm at the output sockets. That seems not a bad set up to me, parallel
wiring at that resistance, like having thicker wire on a single coil. I
reckon it could be lower though, my prewar horseshoe uses 38g wire and has a
resistance of less than 2K ohms. Nothing wrong with either its tone or
output, huge coil though.

9k is about right depending on the gauge. The DiMarzo HS-2 for the
Strat is double that indicating to me a series wired humbuckers pickup
which if you look at the wiring booklet that.s correct. There are
around 22K. The DiMarzio Area T pups have series wired twin coils but
the bottom coil has much less wire. I guess they wanted to retain more
Tele sound but still provide a noiseless pup and figured they didn't
need an equal amount of wire below the top coil. Those had a DC
resistance of around 7.4K IIRC.

[b***@techie.com]

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.
Tony D

I don't think you'd want to. I believe its a dummy coil design and the
coils are usually wound super hot to overcome the effect of the dummy
coil. Plus, you'd have to make sure the phase would agree with the
other p-up if there is one once the dummy coil is grounded. If its a
stacked bucker then you can ground either coil with no issues.

I did it once with a Dimarzio HS3. It was just OK.

[Meat Plow]

On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:36:03 GMT, "Tony Done"

Post by Tony Done
Anyone try it? It looks fairly easy, as far as I can see just one exposed
wire that goes between the two coils. I'm not sure I want to do it, just
curious.
Tony D

Only reason I can think to do this is to ground the bottom coil. You
end up with more of a single coil sound and some hum but at a lower
output (my guess).