Rickenbacker Warranty Fraud

[r***@nospam.net]

Attention: All purchasers of Rickenbacker instruments who have been
defrauded of their warranty rights -- take note! You are not alone.
There is a growing number sharing your fate. Once we get enough
victims together, a class action suit or other litigation can be
initiated.

Until that time comes, warn all would-be purchasers of the danger.

Be sure to keep copies of all documents because they will become
invaluable later. Whenever you have a telephone conversation with a
representative of Rickenbacker, immediately write down what
transpired. If it is legal in your location to record telephone
conversations, that is even better.

When you finally realize that you are not going to get you instrument
repaired, write down everything that has transpired. Stick strictly to
the facts and use neutral words. Do not use profanity, or angry and
loaded language because they will only diminish your cause.

A summary of my victimization is presented at:

http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Rickenbacker/380-Laguna-PZ-01.html

I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

[Les Paul Custom]

Thanks for the warning. I'll be keeping clear of them.

LPC

Post by r***@nospam.net
Attention: All purchasers of Rickenbacker instruments who have been
defrauded of their warranty rights -- take note! You are not alone.
There is a growing number sharing your fate. Once we get enough
victims together, a class action suit or other litigation can be
initiated.
Until that time comes, warn all would-be purchasers of the danger.
Be sure to keep copies of all documents because they will become
invaluable later. Whenever you have a telephone conversation with a
representative of Rickenbacker, immediately write down what
transpired. If it is legal in your location to record telephone
conversations, that is even better.
When you finally realize that you are not going to get you instrument
repaired, write down everything that has transpired. Stick strictly to
the facts and use neutral words. Do not use profanity, or angry and
loaded language because they will only diminish your cause.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Rickenbacker/380-Laguna-PZ-01.html
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

[David Axt]

Post by r***@nospam.net
Attention: All purchasers of Rickenbacker instruments who have been
defrauded of their warranty rights -- take note! You are not alone.
There is a growing number sharing your fate. Once we get enough
victims together, a class action suit or other litigation can be
initiated.
Until that time comes, warn all would-be purchasers of the danger.
Be sure to keep copies of all documents because they will become
invaluable later. Whenever you have a telephone conversation with a
representative of Rickenbacker, immediately write down what
transpired. If it is legal in your location to record telephone
conversations, that is even better.
When you finally realize that you are not going to get you instrument
repaired, write down everything that has transpired. Stick strictly to
the facts and use neutral words. Do not use profanity, or angry and
loaded language because they will only diminish your cause.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Rickenbacker/380-Laguna-PZ-01.html
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

Actually I believe that Rickenbacker's warranty states that it starts "at
date of manufacturer". So you can essentially buy a new guitar that is
already out of warranty.

Someone should look into this as far as the Uniform Commercial Code and
California State law. My bet is that Rickenbacker's warranty is not legal.
It also makes you wonder about a company that would set up a warranty this
way. I'm surprised that they don't offer extended warranties.

-David

[C, TFM]

Post by David Axt

Post by r***@nospam.net
Attention: All purchasers of Rickenbacker instruments who have been
defrauded of their warranty rights -- take note! You are not alone.
There is a growing number sharing your fate. Once we get enough
victims together, a class action suit or other litigation can be
initiated.
Until that time comes, warn all would-be purchasers of the danger.
Be sure to keep copies of all documents because they will become
invaluable later. Whenever you have a telephone conversation with a
representative of Rickenbacker, immediately write down what
transpired. If it is legal in your location to record telephone
conversations, that is even better.
When you finally realize that you are not going to get you instrument
repaired, write down everything that has transpired. Stick strictly to
the facts and use neutral words. Do not use profanity, or angry and
loaded language because they will only diminish your cause.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Rickenbacker/380-Laguna-PZ-0
1.html
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

Actually I believe that Rickenbacker's warranty states that it starts
"at date of manufacturer". So you can essentially buy a new guitar that
is already out of warranty.
Someone should look into this as far as the Uniform Commercial Code and
California State law. My bet is that Rickenbacker's warranty is not
legal. It also makes you wonder about a company that would set up a
warranty this way. I'm surprised that they don't offer extended
warranties.

They don't offer extended warranties because they know their guitars are
crap - rarely actually played and generally being hung in display cabinets
by rich toy collecting wankers.

[c***@hotmail.com]

It is pretty bizarre, come to think of it. Personally I don't much like
Ricks because of the difficulty of working on them. They are about
impossible to repair cosmetically because the finish they use , which
they keep secret, can't be repaired like lacquer. Also, semihollow
models are capable of having neck angle problems that are really
difficult to fix and when you do you can't refinish. But if you just
have to have that jingle jangle sound, there's little else that will
work.

[Justice]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
It is pretty bizarre, come to think of it. Personally I don't much like
Ricks because of the difficulty of working on them. They are about
impossible to repair cosmetically because the finish they use , which
they keep secret, can't be repaired like lacquer. Also, semihollow
models are capable of having neck angle problems that are really
difficult to fix and when you do you can't refinish. But if you just
have to have that jingle jangle sound, there's little else that will
work.

yes there is...it's called a Dan Electro

-----------------------------------------------------
Come check out the SX, Brice and Agile guitars Yahoo group.
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SX_Brice_Agile/

[mickey]

Post by Justice
yes there is...it's called a Dan Electro

These sound pretty good too:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=22670&item=
3778434252&tc=photo

[Rick N. Backer]

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 04:02:21 GMT, Justice

Post by Justice

Post by c***@hotmail.com
It is pretty bizarre, come to think of it. Personally I don't much like
Ricks because of the difficulty of working on them. They are about
impossible to repair cosmetically because the finish they use , which
they keep secret, can't be repaired like lacquer. Also, semihollow
models are capable of having neck angle problems that are really
difficult to fix and when you do you can't refinish. But if you just
have to have that jingle jangle sound, there's little else that will
work.

yes there is...it's called a Dan Electro
-----------------------------------------------------
Come check out the SX, Brice and Agile guitars Yahoo group.
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SX_Brice_Agile/

I was thinking Vox but would agree on the Dan Electro as well.

Ken Wilson

Amer. Dlx. Tele, Gary Moore LP, LP DC Classic w/P90s,
Jeff Beck Strat, Morgan OM Acoustic,
Rick 360/12, Std. Strat (MIM), Mesa 100 Nomad,
Mesa F-30

"Goodnight Austin, Texas, wherever you are."

[mcinsplurge]

Post by Justice

Post by c***@hotmail.com
It is pretty bizarre, come to think of it. Personally I don't much like
Ricks because of the difficulty of working on them. They are about
impossible to repair cosmetically because the finish they use , which
they keep secret, can't be repaired like lacquer. Also, semihollow
models are capable of having neck angle problems that are really
difficult to fix and when you do you can't refinish. But if you just
have to have that jingle jangle sound, there's little else that will
work.

yes there is...it's called a Dan Electro

Maybe so, but I still prefer my Rick Enbacker

[Don Evans]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
It is pretty bizarre, come to think of it. Personally I don't much like
Ricks because of the difficulty of working on them. They are about
impossible to repair cosmetically because the finish they use , which
they keep secret, can't be repaired like lacquer. Also, semihollow
models are capable of having neck angle problems that are really
difficult to fix and when you do you can't refinish. But if you just
have to have that jingle jangle sound, there's little else that will
work.

Not true! These samples were largely done with an Ibanez.

http://www.janglebox.com/clips.asp

Don

[Valerie L Magee]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
It is pretty bizarre, come to think of it. Personally I don't much like
Ricks because of the difficulty of working on them. They are about
impossible to repair cosmetically because the finish they use , which
they keep secret, can't be repaired like lacquer. Also, semihollow
models are capable of having neck angle problems that are really
difficult to fix and when you do you can't refinish. But if you just
have to have that jingle jangle sound, there's little else that will
work.

Then there's the new Martin Limited Edition HD-7 Roger McGuinn
(7-string). The best features of a six, with the doubled G string octave
pair for the jingle jangle sound. I'm putting together a mailing on it;
write to me if you want to be on the mailing list. It will include a
"home video" made at Martin with Roger demonstrating the guitar.

Here are the specs at the Martin site:
http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?m=HD-7%20Roger%20McGuinn&p=ltd

Read the Sounding Board story too:

http://www.martinguitar.com/artists/display_artist.php?d=296

[Cactus Jammies]

The G strings are not reversed on this example so the jingle jangle sound is
not necessarily what you'd get. You would get harmonics though that would
deepen the resonance. $5500 a pop? One could probably modify an existing
six string to get the same values.

Cactus Jammies

Post by c***@hotmail.com
It is pretty bizarre, come to think of it. Personally I don't much like
Ricks because of the difficulty of working on them. They are about
impossible to repair cosmetically because the finish they use , which
they keep secret, can't be repaired like lacquer. Also, semihollow
models are capable of having neck angle problems that are really
difficult to fix and when you do you can't refinish. But if you just
have to have that jingle jangle sound, there's little else that will
work.

Then there's the new Martin Limited Edition HD-7 Roger McGuinn (7-string).
The best features of a six, with the doubled G string octave pair for the
jingle jangle sound. I'm putting together a mailing on it; write to me if
you want to be on the mailing list. It will include a "home video" made at
Martin with Roger demonstrating the guitar.
http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?m=HD-7%20Roger%20McGuinn&p=ltd
http://www.martinguitar.com/artists/display_artist.php?d=296

[Valerie L Magee]

Post by Cactus Jammies
The G strings are not reversed on this example so the jingle jangle sound is
not necessarily what you'd get. You would get harmonics though that would
deepen the resonance. $5500 a pop? One could probably modify an existing
six string to get the same values.
Cactus Jammies

Post by c***@hotmail.com
It is pretty bizarre, come to think of it. Personally I don't much like
Ricks because of the difficulty of working on them. They are about
impossible to repair cosmetically because the finish they use , which
they keep secret, can't be repaired like lacquer. Also, semihollow
models are capable of having neck angle problems that are really
difficult to fix and when you do you can't refinish. But if you just
have to have that jingle jangle sound, there's little else that will
work.

Then there's the new Martin Limited Edition HD-7 Roger McGuinn (7-string).
The best features of a six, with the doubled G string octave pair for the
jingle jangle sound. I'm putting together a mailing on it; write to me if
you want to be on the mailing list. It will include a "home video" made at
Martin with Roger demonstrating the guitar.
http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?m=HD-7%20Roger%20McGuinn&p=ltd
http://www.martinguitar.com/artists/display_artist.php?d=296

Yes, that is absolutely true. The prototype was an HD-28V with just the
alteration to the bridge and the headstock. And of course the price is
list (not street) and includes the premium for both Martin and the
Limited Edition. I'm not suggesting that you necessary buy one, but I
thought it would be interesting to some folks.

[c***@hotmail.com]

I thought this was a joke until I went to Martin's web site. This is
actually going to be offered by Martin. Ri-goddam-diculous, as John
Wayne would say.

[c***@hotmail.com]

Cactus Jammies>"The G strings are not reversed on this example so the
jingle jangle sound is
not necessarily what you'd get."

Two words. New nut.

[Cactus Jammies]

fer sure. been suggesting it fer years sometimes I can be a little subtle.
I figure nut replacement to accomodate 6 1/2 strings similar to the nut
spacing issues that the newer Ric 12s have; and bridge changes with possibly
a re-arranged tuner rigging for the extra high octave C string. A zither
pin at the bridge end wor the windings and a catch at the new nut end to
engage the steel ring on the end of the high G string? Put the zither pin
mounted through the re-enforced bridge bracing? Have to draw a picture.

8-)

cactus jammies

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Cactus Jammies>"The G strings are not reversed on this example so the
jingle jangle sound is
not necessarily what you'd get."
Two words. New nut.

[c***@hotmail.com]

The most extreme extension of this was the "Axelrod Axe". Do a Google
search.

[±]

Post by C, TFM

Post by David Axt

Post by r***@nospam.net
Attention: All purchasers of Rickenbacker instruments who have been
defrauded of their warranty rights -- take note! You are not alone.
There is a growing number sharing your fate. Once we get enough
victims together, a class action suit or other litigation can be
initiated.
Until that time comes, warn all would-be purchasers of the danger.
Be sure to keep copies of all documents because they will become
invaluable later. Whenever you have a telephone conversation with a
representative of Rickenbacker, immediately write down what
transpired. If it is legal in your location to record telephone
conversations, that is even better.
When you finally realize that you are not going to get you instrument
repaired, write down everything that has transpired. Stick strictly to
the facts and use neutral words. Do not use profanity, or angry and
loaded language because they will only diminish your cause.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Rickenbacker/380-Laguna-PZ-0
1.html
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

Actually I believe that Rickenbacker's warranty states that it starts
"at date of manufacturer". So you can essentially buy a new guitar that
is already out of warranty.
Someone should look into this as far as the Uniform Commercial Code and
California State law. My bet is that Rickenbacker's warranty is not
legal. It also makes you wonder about a company that would set up a
warranty this way. I'm surprised that they don't offer extended
warranties.

They don't offer extended warranties because they know their guitars are
crap - rarely actually played and generally being hung in display cabinets
by rich toy collecting wankers.

Keep your group together, use Rotosound strings!
--
http://www.bedoper.com/snuh



-------
/ \
/ \ /-----\
| (@) | | SnuH |
| (O) | \_ ___/
| / | ||
| \ /_ / //
\ \____/ / /
\ /
\_____,

[Lee Waun]

warranties.

Post by C, TFM
They don't offer extended warranties because they know their guitars are
crap - rarely actually played and generally being hung in display cabinets
by rich toy collecting wankers.

I owned three of them and I don't miss them a bit. They just aren't easy to
play even. Just like this guy said only suitable for being on display.

[cardesnr99]

I thought this was a group to support Rickenbacker owners. I am
constantly posting here in aid of people needing real information, and
then one of these hatemongers comes along and stirs up the pot.

I think John Hall's point was exactly that--that the guy is a
hatemonger.

There's only one kind of hatred, no matter the object or objects of the
hatred, and hatred yields nothing for anybody although it does give
small-minded, maladjusted sociopaths something to rally around as they
stir up the shit that energizes them.

This guy's way of dealing with issues is to cause grief for others. And
now the Rick-haters have jumped on the bandwagon again.

I say: you don't like Rics, go rant somewhere else! This is a support
group.


Now to address the ignorance displayed by these posts and disseminated
by this forum:

For the record:

RIC finishes are not a secret to anyone who knows how to finish or
refinish a guitar professionally. Anybody who doesn't know how, and
tries and fails, should not knock the products themselves. That's like
buying a new Mercedes and knocking it because you tried to fix it
without the proper tools.

Rick warrantys begin at the time the guitar leaves the factory because
of time elapsed before the guitar finds its way through a dealer's
hands into those of the end consumer. Lots can happen in transit or
storage. Ricks are very specialized and finely-constructed instruments,
not engineered or built like an assembled Fender or Orient-produced
Gibson or Gretsch. Seldom will it take a Rick longer that a year after
being built for it to find a home. That's still four years left on the
warranty.

Mister Tawny, you are a victim of "Rick negativism". Can't you see past
the fact that people who are dissatisfied with a product are ten times
more visible that those who love it and are satisfied? For every
loudmouth with a dubious claim or critique of Rick or their products or
business practices, there are hundreds of satisfied customers.

Other issues: If you want a guitar you can thrash, buy something cheap
and thrash it to hell, or buy a Rick and thrash it, but don't complain
to anyone about the price. I'm neither a rich wanker nor a guitar
displayer; I appreciate quality and tradition and incredible sound. My
Ricks are the easiest-to-play of all the guitars I own (including
Gretsches and Fenders dating back to 1959).

Mr. Les Paul Custom shows his own prejudices in his screen name, then
adds: thanks for the warning! Ridiculous.

Mr. Sanchez is a voice of reason in all this ranting.

I'm just tired of this group. Maybe it should be called "alt. guitar.
bashrick" or something. I've never seen such a parade of ignorance and
hatred.

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by cardesnr99
I thought this was a group to support Rickenbacker owners. I am
constantly posting here in aid of people needing real information, and
then one of these hatemongers comes along and stirs up the pot.
I think John Hall's point was exactly that--that the guy is a
hatemonger.
There's only one kind of hatred, no matter the object or objects of the
hatred, and hatred yields nothing for anybody although it does give
small-minded, maladjusted sociopaths something to rally around as they
stir up the shit that energizes them.
This guy's way of dealing with issues is to cause grief for others. And
now the Rick-haters have jumped on the bandwagon again.
I say: you don't like Rics, go rant somewhere else! This is a support
group.
Now to address the ignorance displayed by these posts and disseminated
RIC finishes are not a secret to anyone who knows how to finish or
refinish a guitar professionally. Anybody who doesn't know how, and
tries and fails, should not knock the products themselves. That's like
buying a new Mercedes and knocking it because you tried to fix it
without the proper tools.
Rick warrantys begin at the time the guitar leaves the factory because
of time elapsed before the guitar finds its way through a dealer's
hands into those of the end consumer. Lots can happen in transit or
storage. Ricks are very specialized and finely-constructed instruments,
not engineered or built like an assembled Fender or Orient-produced
Gibson or Gretsch. Seldom will it take a Rick longer that a year after
being built for it to find a home. That's still four years left on the
warranty.
Mister Tawny, you are a victim of "Rick negativism". Can't you see past
the fact that people who are dissatisfied with a product are ten times
more visible that those who love it and are satisfied? For every
loudmouth with a dubious claim or critique of Rick or their products or
business practices, there are hundreds of satisfied customers.
Other issues: If you want a guitar you can thrash, buy something cheap
and thrash it to hell, or buy a Rick and thrash it, but don't complain
to anyone about the price. I'm neither a rich wanker nor a guitar
displayer; I appreciate quality and tradition and incredible sound. My
Ricks are the easiest-to-play of all the guitars I own (including
Gretsches and Fenders dating back to 1959).
Mr. Les Paul Custom shows his own prejudices in his screen name, then
adds: thanks for the warning! Ridiculous.
Mr. Sanchez is a voice of reason in all this ranting.
I'm just tired of this group. Maybe it should be called "alt. guitar.
bashrick" or something. I've never seen such a parade of ignorance and
hatred.

Look at all of the groups this thread is crossposted to in the header.
Then you will see that not all of us are participating in your support
group.

I wish I had noticed this myself a bit earlier. I wouldn't have
responded at all.

Can't see them in your browser? Go download Mozilla Thunderbird and
install it. It's free and it doesn't suffer the vagaries of Outlook
Express, if that is what you are using to read the news.

Ed Cregger
TAS

[cardesnr99]

OK, Seismo, I did notice, but didn't make the connection that you guys
were from off-Planet Rick.

I do not use Outlook. Your assumptions that I use Windows and that I
suffer the vagaries of Outlook are incorrect.

I'm a right-brained Apple user using Safari.

I still wish that this guy would take his private battles elsewhere.

Best,

CD99

Post by The Amazing Seismo
Look at all of the groups this thread is crossposted to in the

header.

Post by The Amazing Seismo
Then you will see that not all of us are participating in your

support

Post by The Amazing Seismo
group.
I wish I had noticed this myself a bit earlier. I wouldn't have
responded at all.
Can't see them in your browser? Go download Mozilla Thunderbird and
install it. It's free and it doesn't suffer the vagaries of Outlook
Express, if that is what you are using to read the news.
Ed Cregger
TAS

[c***@hotmail.com]

I saw this on RMMG and didn't know it was crossposted to a.g.r. I
would have not said anything on a.g.r. because, I firmly believe if you
like them you like them. Whatever gets you through the night, like
Frank said.

However, Ric literature talks extensively about the secret proprietary
finish they use and they indeed won't talk about it to anyone. I am
sure it would submit to analysis, but from the description it must be a
catalyzed finish of some type, which maked blending repairs with
touch-up lacquers and amalgamators impossible.

it is a simple fact that semihollow models in need of neck reset are
poison on the market-the expense of repair is considered higher than
the market value of the guitar. To my knowledge, Ric does not do
repairs on their OOW instruments, however, my knowledge is limited.

Rics sound like Rics and nothing else realy quite does, although that
may be for the same reason no one else makes a burger quite like a
White Castle-if you want one of those that's where you go and the
mainstream ignores them. Either you really, really like them or you
find them disgusting. I know of no one actually disgusted by Ric sound,
but it just isn't that popular compared to Fender or Gibson sound.

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by cardesnr99
OK, Seismo, I did notice, but didn't make the connection that you guys
were from off-Planet Rick.

I tried to be friendly and congenial, but I
get a wiseass insult in return.

Post by cardesnr99
I do not use Outlook. Your assumptions that I use Windows and that I
suffer the vagaries of Outlook are incorrect.

Again, just trying to be friendly and
helpful. Most folks do use Windows and
Outlook Express. Didn't I say "if"? Thought I
did.

Ed Cregger

[±]

Post by The Amazing Seismo

Post by cardesnr99
OK, Seismo, I did notice, but didn't make the connection that you guys
were from off-Planet Rick.

I tried to be friendly and congenial, but I
get a wiseass insult in return.

Rickenbacker freaks are usually rude - you'd be as well having a
collection of guitars that have neck warp after room temperature drops
twelve degrees in under two hours.
--
http://www.bedoper.com/snuh




-------
/ \
/ \ /-----\
| (@) | | SnuH |
| (O) | \_ ___/
| / | ||
| \ /_ / //
\ \____/ / /
\ /
\_____,

[C, TFM]

Post by ±

Post by The Amazing Seismo

Post by cardesnr99
OK, Seismo, I did notice, but didn't make the connection that you guys
were from off-Planet Rick.

I tried to be friendly and congenial, but I
get a wiseass insult in return.

Rickenbacker freaks are usually rude - you'd be as well having a
collection of guitars that have neck warp after room temperature drops
twelve degrees in under two hours.

I'd be rude too if I'd spent that much cash on firewood.

[PolyMorf]

Post by cardesnr99
Rick warrantys begin at the time the guitar leaves the factory because
of time elapsed before the guitar finds its way through a dealer's
hands into those of the end consumer. Lots can happen in transit or
storage. Ricks are very specialized and finely-constructed
instruments, not engineered or built like an assembled Fender or
Orient-produced Gibson or Gretsch. Seldom will it take a Rick longer
that a year after being built for it to find a home. That's still
four years left on the warranty.

If indeed true, that is an IDIOTIC warranty! What a DUMB ASS way
to do business!

Rickenbacker should be ashamed of itself. What the hell, they don't
know how to pack and ship a guitar properly?

I can hook them up with some packaging engineers I know.

Regards,

Harry

[Mister Tawny the Talking Tiger]

<snip the rest>

Post by cardesnr99
Mister Tawny, you are a victim of "Rick negativism". Can't you see past
the fact that people who are dissatisfied with a product are ten times
more visible that those who love it and are satisfied? For every
loudmouth with a dubious claim or critique of Rick or their products or
business practices, there are hundreds of satisfied customers.

This is usenet if you don't like what someone says add them to your
killfile. That said, if you actually noted in my post I have owned
several Rics in the past (4000 and 4001). While okay for the studio,
they are far too delicate and trouble prone for gigging. My son has a
4001 that he used in his band and had the exact same problems I have had
20 years ago. He now uses a 1998 Fender P-bass and my old beater G&L.

When I read the original post, I couldn't beleive any compnay was that
short sighted to treat any customer that way, PERIOD! If he bought it
at an authorized dealer, he should have the benefit of a warranty.
Whether he is a hate monger, Jesus freak, or bomb throwing anarchist.
That is his political leanings, but it has NOTHING to so with the axe.
Nowhere in his post did I see a mention of hate speech. Just somebody
screwed by a company that seems to have a penchant for it. Like I said
do a google then a yahoo search and it returns so many horror stories
that the company should get off it's ass and correct the problem.

As far as a warranty goes, it should be from time of purchase. Anything
else is downright ludicrous. Sure there is transport and handling, but
I would hope that was figured into the warranty period. As far as
requiring a warranty card to be sent in. I am somewhat ambivilent. As
long as you have the receipt proving you are the original owner, it
shouldn't be a big deal. One of the customer service horror stories I
read about was truly ghastly. A grandmother purchased a guitar for her
grandson's birthday. It needed warranty repairs after 3 years. Grannie
had passed in that period and they refused to honor the warranty because
the grandson was NOT the original buyer. Maybe Grannie was one of
Hitler's ex-lovers?????? Dunno but it wasn't mentioned in the post, so
it probably wasn't germane to the issue now, was it?

Take a clue from other luxury industries and offer customer service that
is above reproach, and people will knock down your door to get your product.

Again let me state I worked in the music industry and consumer
electronics for the better part of my life (20+ years). I have attended
14 NAMM shows in both a buyer and vendor capacity. In all my time I
have NEVER seen such an egregious lack of customer support.

Post by cardesnr99
Tiger: If you were in MI, then you would know that it's next to
impossible to get ANY company to fix ANYTHING under warranty. The only
warranty work I've EVER seen performed was on stuff that was special
ordered to the store and came in defective, were SO screwed up that no
human force could have done it (Tobias basses come to mind), or that
the company itself has issued a bulletin regarding a known defect.

That's funny as a sales manager, service manager, parts supersvisor,
manufacturers rep and a just sales guy, I have literally done HUNDREDS
of RA's to get stuff fixed, and most companies even send a call tag.
Granted 20+ years ago it was tough especially with Norlin and Fender.
But now if you have a problem with Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, hell shitty
Sahlein will repair your stuff because it does them better word of
mouth. Most companies have realized that service can make a difference.
Especially in the repeat business end of things.

Guitars are not something you have to have to live. It is a luxury. If
you take a clue from companies like Jaguar, Lexus, Apple or Sony during
the warranty period stuff gets fixed, because they want you to buy from
them again.

Sony was smart about things. They realized that labor is the big charge
so most of their equipment comes with a LONG parts warranty, but a short
labor warranty (usually 90 days). But most time in the first 3 years
they will service most things completely for free. One of the reason
they have a fanatic following, and incredible brand identification.

[David]

Post by Mister Tawny the Talking Tiger
<snip the rest>

Post by cardesnr99
Mister Tawny, you are a victim of "Rick negativism". Can't you see past
the fact that people who are dissatisfied with a product are ten times
more visible that those who love it and are satisfied? For every
loudmouth with a dubious claim or critique of Rick or their products or
business practices, there are hundreds of satisfied customers.

This is usenet if you don't like what someone says add them to your
killfile. That said, if you actually noted in my post I have owned
several Rics in the past (4000 and 4001). While okay for the studio, they
are far too delicate and trouble prone for gigging. My son has a 4001
that he used in his band and had the exact same problems I have had 20
years ago. He now uses a 1998 Fender P-bass and my old beater G&L.
When I read the original post, I couldn't beleive any compnay was that
short sighted to treat any customer that way, PERIOD! If he bought it at
an authorized dealer, he should have the benefit of a warranty. Whether he
is a hate monger, Jesus freak, or bomb throwing anarchist. That is his
political leanings, but it has NOTHING to so with the axe. Nowhere in his
post did I see a mention of hate speech. Just somebody screwed by a
company that seems to have a penchant for it. Like I said do a google
then a yahoo search and it returns so many horror stories that the company
should get off it's ass and correct the problem.

And as Ed pointed out there's also nothing on the site linked by John Hall
that mentions this guy. A lot of people simply jumped to conclusions that
he's a racist, bigot, whatever. That doesn't automatically brand him a liar
even if he is a bigot. Is he not entitled to good customer service simply
because of his views?

Post by Mister Tawny the Talking Tiger
As far as a warranty goes, it should be from time of purchase. Anything
else is downright ludicrous. Sure there is transport and handling, but I
would hope that was figured into the warranty period. As far as requiring
a warranty card to be sent in. I am somewhat ambivilent. As long as you
have the receipt proving you are the original owner, it shouldn't be a big
deal. One of the customer service horror stories I read about was truly
ghastly. A grandmother purchased a guitar for her grandson's birthday.
It needed warranty repairs after 3 years. Grannie had passed in that
period and they refused to honor the warranty because the grandson was NOT
the original buyer. Maybe Grannie was one of Hitler's ex-lovers??????
Dunno but it wasn't mentioned in the post, so it probably wasn't germane
to the issue now, was it?
Take a clue from other luxury industries and offer customer service that
is above reproach, and people will knock down your door to get your product.
Again let me state I worked in the music industry and consumer electronics
for the better part of my life (20+ years). I have attended 14 NAMM shows
in both a buyer and vendor capacity. In all my time I have NEVER seen
such an egregious lack of customer support.

Post by cardesnr99
Tiger: If you were in MI, then you would know that it's next to
impossible to get ANY company to fix ANYTHING under warranty. The only
warranty work I've EVER seen performed was on stuff that was special
ordered to the store and came in defective, were SO screwed up that no
human force could have done it (Tobias basses come to mind), or that the
company itself has issued a bulletin regarding a known defect.

That's funny as a sales manager, service manager, parts supersvisor,
manufacturers rep and a just sales guy, I have literally done HUNDREDS of
RA's to get stuff fixed, and most companies even send a call tag. Granted
20+ years ago it was tough especially with Norlin and Fender. But now if
you have a problem with Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, hell shitty Sahlein will
repair your stuff because it does them better word of mouth. Most
companies have realized that service can make a difference. Especially in
the repeat business end of things.
Guitars are not something you have to have to live. It is a luxury. If
you take a clue from companies like Jaguar, Lexus, Apple or Sony during
the warranty period stuff gets fixed, because they want you to buy from
them again.
Sony was smart about things. They realized that labor is the big charge
so most of their equipment comes with a LONG parts warranty, but a short
labor warranty (usually 90 days). But most time in the first 3 years they
will service most things completely for free. One of the reason they have
a fanatic following, and incredible brand identification.

[The Filthy Sanchez]

Post by David

Post by Mister Tawny the Talking Tiger
<snip the rest>

Post by cardesnr99
Mister Tawny, you are a victim of "Rick negativism". Can't you see past
the fact that people who are dissatisfied with a product are ten times
more visible that those who love it and are satisfied? For every
loudmouth with a dubious claim or critique of Rick or their products or
business practices, there are hundreds of satisfied customers.

This is usenet if you don't like what someone says add them to your
killfile. That said, if you actually noted in my post I have owned
several Rics in the past (4000 and 4001). While okay for the studio, they
are far too delicate and trouble prone for gigging. My son has a 4001
that he used in his band and had the exact same problems I have had 20
years ago. He now uses a 1998 Fender P-bass and my old beater G&L.
When I read the original post, I couldn't beleive any compnay was that
short sighted to treat any customer that way, PERIOD! If he bought it at
an authorized dealer, he should have the benefit of a warranty. Whether he
is a hate monger, Jesus freak, or bomb throwing anarchist. That is his
political leanings, but it has NOTHING to so with the axe. Nowhere in his
post did I see a mention of hate speech. Just somebody screwed by a
company that seems to have a penchant for it. Like I said do a google
then a yahoo search and it returns so many horror stories that the company
should get off it's ass and correct the problem.

And as Ed pointed out there's also nothing on the site linked by John Hall
that mentions this guy. A lot of people simply jumped to conclusions that
he's a racist, bigot, whatever. That doesn't automatically brand him a liar
even if he is a bigot. Is he not entitled to good customer service simply
because of his views?

He's entitled to good customer service as a customer. What we've seen is a
simple he said-he said thing.with no evidence one way or the other. Based
solely on the individuals involved I don't believe the guy who thinks jews,
blacks, italians, catholics, etc. are somehow inferior.

Post by David

Post by Mister Tawny the Talking Tiger
As far as a warranty goes, it should be from time of purchase. Anything
else is downright ludicrous. Sure there is transport and handling, but I
would hope that was figured into the warranty period. As far as requiring
a warranty card to be sent in. I am somewhat ambivilent. As long as you
have the receipt proving you are the original owner, it shouldn't be a big
deal. One of the customer service horror stories I read about was truly
ghastly. A grandmother purchased a guitar for her grandson's birthday.
It needed warranty repairs after 3 years. Grannie had passed in that
period and they refused to honor the warranty because the grandson was NOT
the original buyer. Maybe Grannie was one of Hitler's ex-lovers??????
Dunno but it wasn't mentioned in the post, so it probably wasn't germane
to the issue now, was it?
Take a clue from other luxury industries and offer customer service that
is above reproach, and people will knock down your door to get your product.
Again let me state I worked in the music industry and consumer electronics
for the better part of my life (20+ years). I have attended 14 NAMM shows
in both a buyer and vendor capacity. In all my time I have NEVER seen
such an egregious lack of customer support.

Post by cardesnr99
Tiger: If you were in MI, then you would know that it's next to
impossible to get ANY company to fix ANYTHING under warranty. The only
warranty work I've EVER seen performed was on stuff that was special
ordered to the store and came in defective, were SO screwed up that no
human force could have done it (Tobias basses come to mind), or that the
company itself has issued a bulletin regarding a known defect.

That's funny as a sales manager, service manager, parts supersvisor,
manufacturers rep and a just sales guy, I have literally done HUNDREDS of
RA's to get stuff fixed, and most companies even send a call tag. Granted
20+ years ago it was tough especially with Norlin and Fender. But now if
you have a problem with Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, hell shitty Sahlein will
repair your stuff because it does them better word of mouth. Most
companies have realized that service can make a difference. Especially in
the repeat business end of things.
Guitars are not something you have to have to live. It is a luxury. If
you take a clue from companies like Jaguar, Lexus, Apple or Sony during
the warranty period stuff gets fixed, because they want you to buy from
them again.
Sony was smart about things. They realized that labor is the big charge
so most of their equipment comes with a LONG parts warranty, but a short
labor warranty (usually 90 days). But most time in the first 3 years they
will service most things completely for free. One of the reason they have
a fanatic following, and incredible brand identification.

[c***@hotmail.com]

It has to be said that even when I was in the business Ric were
difficult to deal with as far as parts and repair went. I remember a
customer who bought an aftermarket bridge for his Ric 12 (I think it
was from New York: Guitarman?) and lost the original. Well he dropped
his Ric and broke the headstock. He bought another and swapped the
bridge and we got the broken guitar for parts. We had a tech who went
to one of those guitar schools, and he decided he would fix it. He
wound up getting the fingerboard off and making a whole new neck. (This
is why I know about Ric's secret finish.) He used the Ric field
replaceable double truss rod (which is pretty good) and all was fine
until it came tine to replace the bridge. Well, the customer didn't
give us the bridge and wasn't going to give it to us now (maybe the
fact we only gave him $75 for the busted guitar entered into it), and
I guess RIC got a hair up their ass because we got a lot of excuses and
no bridge. Eventually we figured out they weren't selling US one, and
we had someone in Seattle call and they sent it to them right away. In
the meantime of all this, Guitarman went tits-up and quit selling their
bridge, or we'd have bought theirs, because it was very much better.

But it goes to show, Ric was difficult then and still are now.

[Rick Wilson]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
It has to be said that even when I was in the business Ric were
difficult to deal with as far as parts and repair went. I remember a
customer who bought an aftermarket bridge for his Ric 12 (I think it
was from New York: Guitarman?) and lost the original. Well he dropped
his Ric and broke the headstock. He bought another and swapped the
bridge and we got the broken guitar for parts. We had a tech who went
to one of those guitar schools, and he decided he would fix it. He
wound up getting the fingerboard off and making a whole new neck. (This
is why I know about Ric's secret finish.) He used the Ric field
replaceable double truss rod (which is pretty good) and all was fine
until it came tine to replace the bridge. Well, the customer didn't
give us the bridge and wasn't going to give it to us now (maybe the
fact we only gave him $75 for the busted guitar entered into it), and
I guess RIC got a hair up their ass because we got a lot of excuses and
no bridge. Eventually we figured out they weren't selling US one, and
we had someone in Seattle call and they sent it to them right away. In
the meantime of all this, Guitarman went tits-up and quit selling their
bridge, or we'd have bought theirs, because it was very much better.
But it goes to show, Ric was difficult then and still are now.

On a similar note, I bought a used Ric at a swap meet a couple of years
back for a steal that was missing the truss rod cavity cover. I figured
I'd just call them up and purchase a new one. Big mistake! They
absolutely refuse to sell any truss rod covers without having the old
one in exchange for it. The same went for several of the other parts
that I wanted to replace, like the trapeze tailpiece. Needless to say,
I got rather frustrated and put it up on ebay to dump the whole project.
I don't need that kind of hassle to restore a guitar that I bought
legally.

Anywho,
Rick

[jcativera]

I had a similiar episode where i was given a basketcase 330 from a friend. I
wanted a nameplate and was told to poundsand in so many words. I was even
going to supply the serial number but forget it! I find that the actual
owners of RICS like the great people on this site provide better customer
service than the actual company. Anytime I have had a question or concearn I
come here first.

Post by Rick Wilson

Post by c***@hotmail.com
It has to be said that even when I was in the business Ric were
difficult to deal with as far as parts and repair went. I remember a
customer who bought an aftermarket bridge for his Ric 12 (I think it
was from New York: Guitarman?) and lost the original. Well he dropped
his Ric and broke the headstock. He bought another and swapped the
bridge and we got the broken guitar for parts. We had a tech who went
to one of those guitar schools, and he decided he would fix it. He
wound up getting the fingerboard off and making a whole new neck. (This
is why I know about Ric's secret finish.) He used the Ric field
replaceable double truss rod (which is pretty good) and all was fine
until it came tine to replace the bridge. Well, the customer didn't
give us the bridge and wasn't going to give it to us now (maybe the
fact we only gave him $75 for the busted guitar entered into it), and
I guess RIC got a hair up their ass because we got a lot of excuses and
no bridge. Eventually we figured out they weren't selling US one, and
we had someone in Seattle call and they sent it to them right away. In
the meantime of all this, Guitarman went tits-up and quit selling their
bridge, or we'd have bought theirs, because it was very much better.
But it goes to show, Ric was difficult then and still are now.

On a similar note, I bought a used Ric at a swap meet a couple of years
back for a steal that was missing the truss rod cavity cover. I figured
I'd just call them up and purchase a new one. Big mistake! They
absolutely refuse to sell any truss rod covers without having the old
one in exchange for it. The same went for several of the other parts
that I wanted to replace, like the trapeze tailpiece. Needless to say,
I got rather frustrated and put it up on ebay to dump the whole project.
I don't need that kind of hassle to restore a guitar that I bought
legally.
Anywho,
Rick

[Vince]

Post by C, TFM
They don't offer extended warranties because they know their guitars are
crap - rarely actually played and generally being hung in display cabinets
by rich toy collecting wankers.

And it's my ambition to be one of them.

[Andy]

There is no Real Rickenbacker Warranty. Their warranty is based on a
"pick and choose" basis. Some people get the service, some don't. I
purchased a brand new Rickenbacker 325C58 last year, still under
warranty. It was made in 2003. I had many problems with the quality
of the workmanship and took them up directly with Ricks so called CEO.
He basically told me they, Rickenbacker, weren't responsible for these
problems since it may have gone thru many hands before it got to me.
What kind of crap is that to tell a customer. If thats the case then
sell directly from the factory to the customer, since thats the only
way, according to Rickenbacker, that you are assured a perfect guitar.
They treat their guitars like they are a perishable item, like milk or
eggs. Anyway to make a long story short, I sold the Rick I had, and
will never do business with Rickenbacker again. All you read about on
these guitars is how bad the customer service is, along with problems
such as warped or twisted necks, finish problems, hardware falling off
them, string buzzing, innotation problems, and just poor quality. All
this for a one or two thousand dollar and up guitar. If the guitar were
in the 400 or 500 dollar price range I could understand, but when you
pay this high amount of money you expect a high quality guitar without
all these flaws and problems, and you expect a little courtesy from the
manufacturer and for them to stand behind their warranty. Its quite
obvious Rickenbacker is living off their past reputation of decades ago
to sell their current trash at high prices. There are still plenty of
more deserving American guitar companies where you can get a quality
instrument with a usable warranty for a reasonable price.

Anyone know of a *well made* electric 12 string? What are the older Fender
12's like?

--
sixtiesguy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
sixtiesguy's Profile: http://brawl-hall.com/forums/member.php?userid=
16756
View this thread: http://brawl-hall.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70061
(This message was sent via the http://www.Brawl-Hall.com usenet gateway)

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by David Axt

Post by r***@nospam.net
Attention: All purchasers of Rickenbacker instruments who have been
defrauded of their warranty rights -- take note! You are not alone.
There is a growing number sharing your fate. Once we get enough
victims together, a class action suit or other litigation can be
initiated.
Until that time comes, warn all would-be purchasers of the danger.
Be sure to keep copies of all documents because they will become
invaluable later. Whenever you have a telephone conversation with a
representative of Rickenbacker, immediately write down what
transpired. If it is legal in your location to record telephone
conversations, that is even better.
When you finally realize that you are not going to get you instrument
repaired, write down everything that has transpired. Stick strictly to
the facts and use neutral words. Do not use profanity, or angry and
loaded language because they will only diminish your cause.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Rickenbacker/380-Laguna-PZ-01.html
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

Actually I believe that Rickenbacker's warranty states that it starts "at
date of manufacturer". So you can essentially buy a new guitar that is
already out of warranty.
Someone should look into this as far as the Uniform Commercial Code and
California State law. My bet is that Rickenbacker's warranty is not legal.
It also makes you wonder about a company that would set up a warranty this
way. I'm surprised that they don't offer extended warranties.
-David

I told everyone how I was ignored in the seventies when the neck of my
4001 cracked. I'll never buy from them again. They could have at least
answered my letters. But no...

Ed Cregger
TAS

[PolyMorf]

Post by David Axt
Actually I believe that Rickenbacker's warranty states that it starts
"at date of manufacturer". So you can essentially buy a new guitar
that is already out of warranty.
Someone should look into this as far as the Uniform Commercial Code
and California State law. My bet is that Rickenbacker's warranty is
not legal. It also makes you wonder about a company that would set up
a warranty this way. I'm surprised that they don't offer extended
warranties.
-David

I cannot possibly believe that is correct.

Regards,

Harry

[The Filthy Sanchez]

Post by PolyMorf

Post by David Axt
Actually I believe that Rickenbacker's warranty states that it starts
"at date of manufacturer". So you can essentially buy a new guitar
that is already out of warranty.
Someone should look into this as far as the Uniform Commercial Code
and California State law. My bet is that Rickenbacker's warranty is
not legal. It also makes you wonder about a company that would set up
a warranty this way. I'm surprised that they don't offer extended
warranties.
-David

I cannot possibly believe that is correct.
Regards,
Harry

Not knowing the specifics, and not trusting the racist fuck, here's a few
legal generalities:

First, sending in a bingo card does not make your warranty valid or invalid.
It may make things easier for all involved since you're already n the data
base, but the manufacturers' warranty does not depend on sending in the card
under any version of the UCC or state laws.

Second, the warranty can be limited as to the type of damage it covers, and
they could certainly say the guitar was abused...that becomes a separate
issue.

Third, especially when dealing with companies like rick who zealously
control distribution, make sure you are buying new and from a real rick
dealer. A number of facts seem to be missing in the racist's rants...read
between the lines and it's clear it was a net deal of some sort, bought
sight unseen. IF it was not purchased from an authorized dealer, then he
bought a used guitar, and manufacturers' warranties generally do not pass to
anyone but the initial owner. Music Connection is a reputable dealer and
sells a lot of new and used ricks, and I find it hard to believe they never
responded to the OP.

[John Hall]

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

You might want to learn more about the writer of this message, Davis Daboll
of MSR Productions:

http://www.msrproductions.com/

You may then begin to appreciate the problem in this particular situation.

The additional reviews on the same page quoted by the writer are also
interesting.

[The Filthy Sanchez]

Post by John Hall

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

You might want to learn more about the writer of this message, Davis Daboll
http://www.msrproductions.com/
You may then begin to appreciate the problem in this particular situation.
The additional reviews on the same page quoted by the writer are also
interesting.

Interesting indeed. I've not known rickenbacker to be a problem company,
and I daresay no other guitar company will have it's head honcho responding
to newsgroup rants...but here's John Hall of Rick!

So who to believe, the racist shitbag or the head of rickenbacker?

Gotta wonder about the line in the HC review about alleged green necks as
the reason for the double truss rod...that is total bullshit.

As for the rest, beats me, but white supremacists are generally starting off
as lying assholes in my book. Here's a nice selection of the tunes on one
of the CD's they sell:

LIGHTNING ROD, SLAVS AND SPOOKS, GREEKS AND GOOKS Ugly White Guy with a
Gook, The Jews and The Catholics Want Your Guns, No Knock Pigs - or Life on
the Animal Farm, If I Owned Texas, Your Pussy is Too Big, The Bitch is a
Fucking Catholic, Move Them Dagos North, Workin' for a Catholic, Working for
a Jew

Now I must admit that a song called "Your Pussy Is Too Big" might be
amusing, and is certainly probably the life story of these pinheaded
needle-dicked racists, but the rest of the songs seem to attack just about
every possible ethnic group. What a pack of ignorant grunts!

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by John Hall

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

You might want to learn more about the writer of this message, Davis Daboll
http://www.msrproductions.com/
You may then begin to appreciate the problem in this particular situation.
The additional reviews on the same page quoted by the writer are also
interesting.

So does this mean that his problem with Rickenbacker isn't valid?

I didn't find an article pertaining to his alleged situation with
Rickenbacker, but I didn't tary long after I saw the emphasis of his
website. I have no use for rascists.

Having had a problem with Rickenbacker so long ago myself, I am not
surprised that anyone else would have a problem with them. Even after
all of these years later. I was very disappointed with their lack of
communications and I sold the bass shortly thereafter. I haven't been
back since.

Ed Cregger

[mickey]

Post by The Amazing Seismo

Post by John Hall

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

You might want to learn more about the writer of this message, Davis
http://www.msrproductions.com/
You may then begin to appreciate the problem in this particular situation.
The additional reviews on the same page quoted by the writer are also
interesting.

So does this mean that his problem with Rickenbacker isn't valid?

Means it probably is HIS problem, yeah. The guy's a crank, how could
ANYTHING he claims be valid?

Thanks for pointing this out, I almost started to feel a bit sorry for
that piece of scum.

[Phil Wilson]

Disregarding that website, I have a 380LPZ and it had the same problem he
described. The bridge assembly came loose, so when I first read the HC
"review" I had some sympathy. Having said that though, my guitar was bought
from a reputable dealer, repaired under warranty, and has been perfect ever
since. I even wrote John Hall about the excellent attitude and help that I
got from the service guys. So I'm willing to concede that 380s might have
had some issues in this area, but I don't think it excuses his response to
the situation. I've had several Rics, 360, 650, 660, 380, still have the
last two, and I think they're unique in sound and looks. I just wish they
made a wide-neck hollow-body 12-string.....
--
Phil Wilson

Post by The Amazing Seismo

Post by John Hall

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

You might want to learn more about the writer of this message, Davis
http://www.msrproductions.com/
You may then begin to appreciate the problem in this particular situation.
The additional reviews on the same page quoted by the writer are also
interesting.

So does this mean that his problem with Rickenbacker isn't valid?
I didn't find an article pertaining to his alleged situation with
Rickenbacker, but I didn't tary long after I saw the emphasis of his
website. I have no use for rascists.
Having had a problem with Rickenbacker so long ago myself, I am not
surprised that anyone else would have a problem with them. Even after all
of these years later. I was very disappointed with their lack of
communications and I sold the bass shortly thereafter. I haven't been back
since.
Ed Cregger

[Arrow]

This "msr" website is totally disgusting to say the least, i didn't know
hate
organizations like this were publicly allowed in America...and sell their
garbage via web site like that.

i tried to google "daboll msr productions" and looked on the various pages
at that website to find his name, but came up empty...curious how you know
he's associated with msr...

if Mr. Daboll is indeed associated with this hate org, i personally would
want
nothing to do with him, having said that though, if his claim is correct,
the guitar
should be warranty repaired, whether you despise the person or not. Being
associated with a hate org is a separate issue.

Post by John Hall

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

You might want to learn more about the writer of this message, Davis
http://www.msrproductions.com/
You may then begin to appreciate the problem in this particular situation.
The additional reviews on the same page quoted by the writer are also
interesting.

[John Z. Delorean]

"i didn't know
hate
organizations like this were publicly allowed in America...and sell their
garbage via web site like that."

yeah, it's unfortunate, but let's all remember...that whole free speech
thing is there specifically to protect all the shit you don't want to
hear...

[marc]

What proof is there that Davis Daboll is of MSR Productions. That's a pretty
serious allegation.
Are you trying to discredit him for the purpose of making his "Rickenbacker
issue" irrelevant?

Post by John Hall

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

You might want to learn more about the writer of this message, Davis Daboll
http://www.msrproductions.com/
You may then begin to appreciate the problem in this particular situation.
The additional reviews on the same page quoted by the writer are also
interesting.

[John Shaughnessy]

Not only that, but he signed his review DAVID Daboll, not Davis Daboll.

Racist or not, he's a friggin' whiner (actually, there's NOTHING worse than
a racist whiner). Unless the thing spontaneously combusted before he left
the store, there's no way that even the best company would honor these
issues - stuff like that falls under their "normal care and use" exemptions.
Who's to say he wasn't using the guitar as an ironing board?

And even if he did manage to get warranty authorization, and he DID manage
to find a certified Ric luthier in his area, guess where that Ric would go?
Yup, straight to the bottom of the pile, so that his apprentices can
practice on it during the slow months. Luthiers HATE warranty work because
it just doesn't pay. Personally, I'd pay the guy $400 for a neck job, just
so it has his full attention and is finished in under 6 months.

Afraid of warps? Don't buy a set neck. That's why God gave us LeoFender. And
why purchase a guitar with piezos in it if all you're going to do is bitch
about them. And I'm no Thomas Edison, but it stands to reason that if you
can cut off the piezos with by inserting a plug, you could easily wire up a
switch to accomplish the same task.

Adolph, 99% of your problems could have been solved if you had taken the
time to carefully inspect and play the instrument before you left the store.
--
Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm

"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion
and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
- Mark Twain

Post by marc
What proof is there that Davis Daboll is of MSR Productions. That's a pretty
serious allegation.
Are you trying to discredit him for the purpose of making his

"Rickenbacker

Post by marc
issue" irrelevant?

Post by John Hall

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

You might want to learn more about the writer of this message, Davis

Daboll

Post by John Hall
http://www.msrproductions.com/
You may then begin to appreciate the problem in this particular situation.
The additional reviews on the same page quoted by the writer are also
interesting.

[David Axt]

Post by John Hall

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

You might want to learn more about the writer of this message, Davis
http://www.msrproductions.com/
You may then begin to appreciate the problem in this particular situation.
The additional reviews on the same page quoted by the writer are also
interesting.

I could not find a connection between the David Daboll and the website.
Maybe I missed something?

Anyhow it does not matter! The issues is the warranty repair of his guitar
not his belief system.

Does this mean that Rickenbacker only honors the warranty and repairs
guitars for people who share the same political view, ethnic background, or
religious beliefs?

-David

[Boom]

Post by David Axt
I could not find a connection between the David Daboll and the website.
Maybe I missed something?
Anyhow it does not matter! The issues is the warranty repair of his guitar
not his belief system.
Does this mean that Rickenbacker only honors the warranty and repairs
guitars for people who share the same political view, ethnic background, or
religious beliefs?

Yeah, what's up with that? Everyone's entitled to equal application
of warranties. Fix the racist's axe and let him hold it high onstage
as a symbol of hate!

[Thump]

Err... This doesn't refute his claim at all - it's just a personal attack.

Thump

Post by John Hall

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

You might want to learn more about the writer of this message, Davis Daboll
http://www.msrproductions.com/
You may then begin to appreciate the problem in this particular situation.
The additional reviews on the same page quoted by the writer are also
interesting.

[b***@iwaynet.net]

You got that right Thump! So John Hall "answered" the complaint....yeah
sure. His answer was no asnwer at all it was a personal attack on the
complainer to deflect the criticism. Is he running a business or
running for Congress?

Hey, long AGB resisdents have heard all manner of horror stories about
John Hall and his so-called way of doing business. And I'm glad we
have. John ought to know right now that I am a customer he lost. I was
looking at Rick basses at the local guitar shop and was getting more
and more enthused. But then I heard of his jerkwater attitude about
replacement nameplates even if you could prove you owned the bass! It
backed me off and it is NO surprise that his issues go well beyond
nameplates.

Quite frankly I just don't get the atitude of some of these "boutique"
builders who get the idea that their products are just soooooo
exceptional that everyone needs to kiss their reeking butt! Sorry but
NO bass is that good. And it's not just John. You find this attitude
in many places. Such as G&L refusing to answer my email asking what
exact strings came on the bass and SIT strings (who made them) ALSO
refusing to answer my emails as well. I guess these super harsh nasty
strings are just so unique and cool that they can make us all beg to
have the priviledge of buying some.

I've learned that when you see attitudes like that you just better buy
something a bit more mainstream or you'll end up really sorry. Let's
all wish mr racist well on his efforts to shove a lawyer up John's ass.

[Mister Tawny the Talking Tiger]

I dunno a whole lot about John Hall, but I have steered clear of Rick
after hearing horror stories about the quality of the products they make
these days. I have owned a few older 4001's and they were okay, but way
too fragile for a regular gig bass.

I read and re-read this whole thread, and then did a few searches for
Rickenbacker customer service. Man there is no way I would ever
consider buying an insturment from a comapny that refuses to take care
of it's customers. Perhaps it adds to the bottom line NOW, but this
kind of word of mouth, it can't help long term.


I do know of what I speak. I worked in MI for years. Before writing
this I called a friend at GC (Guitar Center)corporate to ask what he
thought about Rickenbacker's customer service. This is a quote, "It's
shit." "I would personally never buy one of their guitars, nor would I
recommend them to anyone I know, period." Pretty much sums it up. I am
waiting to hear back from another friend with a few stores in New York,
but from the other's I've talked to it all sounds the same.
If you want a company that supports the product, don't buy Ricky. if
you must have a Rick, buy one used, and already has the kinks worked
out. But have it checked by a decent luthier before plunking down the
dinero.

If you live in California and you have problems with any warranty
service, you can go to the attorney general's office for help. You
should do a search for "warranty Song Beverly" and "warranty Mag Moss"
for your rights. In California you do NOT have to send in warranty
cards, just keep your receipts. Several other states also have similar
statutes. It is probably worth looking into. If you do win a court
case, and have a judgement, there are ways to have the judgement
excercised too.

BTW so what if the guy is a white/black or whatever racist, or an animal
lover (literally) or a tree hugging hippee, he plunked down his money at
an authorized dealer for a product. If you only want to service people
who you agree with, then I'll be limited to helping only 18 to 40 year
old women with huge juggs and a serious case of nymphomania. Oh yeah
they have to like power pop and pop/punk too! I am taking applications now!

[John Shaughnessy]

Not that anyone asked, but lemme break it down for all you'se:

Tiger: If you were in MI, then you would know that it's next to impossible
to get ANY company to fix ANYTHING under warranty. The only warranty work
I've EVER seen performed was on stuff that was special ordered to the store
and came in defective, were SO screwed up that no human force could have
done it (Tobias basses come to mind), or that the company itself has issued
a bulletin regarding a known defect.

Most instruments have a "limited lifetime" warranty, the "limited" part
meaning that the owner must exercise "normal care" and protect the
instrument from "improper use" or some such.

It would be VERY easy for any law school student to torpedo this case in a
court of law. All you have to do is raise a reasonable doubt about the
instrument's treatment in the hands of the owner. Did he leave it next to a
heater? did he stick it in his trunk? Did he hit his wife with it? Since the
possibilities for "improper care" are many, it's no wonder that sp few
warranty claims are accepted.

As for the rest of my opinion on the matter, read my previous post. Ric may
be pricks to deal with, but they are far from the only ones. Companies don't
make money by fixing shit for free.

Next: The guy may or may not be a racist, and you're correct, it makes no
difference in terms of his rights as a consumer. But considering that white
power losers as a whole pretend to be such self-sufficient, apocalyptic,
"survivalists", it's pretty fucking funny that he's whining about his
broke-ass guitar. And it's a Ric too; not exactly the axe of choice for the
Oi crowd. By all rights, his skinhead buddies should have beat him to death
with copies of "The Turner Diaries" just for buying a Ric.


And for the guy who's whining about G&L: Don't you think they get 10,000
requests a day for information such as yours? Did you check the FAQ on their
website? Perhaps they buy their strings in bulk from the same 4
manufacturers every other stringmaker does, and they can't or won't reveal
their sources. And if you KNOW they are SITs, why are you writing to them?
You need to go to juststrings.com. Determine if they are nickel or
stainless, whip out a caliper, and measure them! SHOULD they at least give
you some response? probably. But writing off a whole company that's because
they won't answer a non-critical email such as this is just asinine.


There, I feel much better.
--
Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm

"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion
and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
- Mark Twain

Post by Mister Tawny the Talking Tiger
I dunno a whole lot about John Hall, but I have steered clear of Rick
after hearing horror stories about the quality of the products they make
these days. I have owned a few older 4001's and they were okay, but way
too fragile for a regular gig bass.
I read and re-read this whole thread, and then did a few searches for
Rickenbacker customer service. Man there is no way I would ever
consider buying an insturment from a comapny that refuses to take care
of it's customers. Perhaps it adds to the bottom line NOW, but this
kind of word of mouth, it can't help long term.
I do know of what I speak. I worked in MI for years. Before writing
this I called a friend at GC (Guitar Center)corporate to ask what he
thought about Rickenbacker's customer service. This is a quote, "It's
shit." "I would personally never buy one of their guitars, nor would I
recommend them to anyone I know, period." Pretty much sums it up. I am
waiting to hear back from another friend with a few stores in New York,
but from the other's I've talked to it all sounds the same.
If you want a company that supports the product, don't buy Ricky. if
you must have a Rick, buy one used, and already has the kinks worked
out. But have it checked by a decent luthier before plunking down the
dinero.
If you live in California and you have problems with any warranty
service, you can go to the attorney general's office for help. You
should do a search for "warranty Song Beverly" and "warranty Mag Moss"
for your rights. In California you do NOT have to send in warranty
cards, just keep your receipts. Several other states also have similar
statutes. It is probably worth looking into. If you do win a court
case, and have a judgement, there are ways to have the judgement
excercised too.
BTW so what if the guy is a white/black or whatever racist, or an animal
lover (literally) or a tree hugging hippee, he plunked down his money at
an authorized dealer for a product. If you only want to service people
who you agree with, then I'll be limited to helping only 18 to 40 year
old women with huge juggs and a serious case of nymphomania. Oh yeah
they have to like power pop and pop/punk too! I am taking applications now!

[Jean Zundel]

Frankly, this is strange, and maybe more complicated than it seems.

1) A guy explains he is disgusted with RIC, apparently with good
reasons.
2) John Hall, CEO of said company, appears on the newsgroup for the
first time in aeons, only to point out the guy in question is a
white suprematist.
3) Nothing. Ok, mayhem ensues on the ng, but have you noticed that
none of the real protagonists have uttered a single word in
public since their first respective post?

It's interesting to note that even if you know how to use Google,
you won't find any link between a D. Daboll and this obnoxious
distribution company. But John Hall knew the link, and there was no
reply from his opponent. How did he know? Something has happened
before the dispute went public, something ***@nospam.net did
not tell us.
--
Jean

[Jean Zundel]

This ***@nospam.net guy is getting more and more interesting.
Here is the first thing Google Groups tells you when you click on
the thread:

Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived. This
message will be removed from Groups in 4 days (Feb 13, 1:13 pm).

--
Jean

[marc]

Right, your turning this into a mystery-thriller?

Post by Jean Zundel
Here is the first thing Google Groups tells you when you click on
Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived. This
message will be removed from Groups in 4 days (Feb 13, 1:13 pm).
--
Jean

[David Brillhart]

Jean,

That's not that uncommon. Lots of people config their newsreader so
that Google won't archive their posts. I'm not defending the guy or
anything, but it's not like he's doing anything unusual there.

Anyways - I have heard some stories about Ric's customer service
before. Remember some guy who posted a while back that a few screws
fell off his bridge, and he called Ric to get some replacement screws?
IIRC - RIC was going to give him a couple of screws (one set) and ship
them to him, but he asked that they throw in a few extra ones, and a
big argment ensued - complete with email trail from him to John Hall. I
appologize if I have the facts wrong on this case it's been a long
time. I'm not even sure it was clear who was at fault, Ric, the
customer, or both. It's possible there might have been a bit of
overreaction on both sides.

I have had a few Rics, and I have to say I think they are well made
instruments. I had a 650D and two 4003 basses, and to me they seemed
solid as a rock. I have called up Ric for replacement parts here and
there over the years, and they seemed to me to be very freindly, very
professional, and I got exactly what I asked for in a short amount of
time.
That being said, I have gotten exactly the same treatment from Peavey,
and Carvin who's instruments aren't generally as expensive as Rics are.

I'd personally be inclined to buy a Ric used, or from somewhere I
could take it back to if anything went wrong, just in case - based on
this thread. Lifes too short to hassle with warrently problems, etc.

[Jean Zundel]

Post by David Brillhart
Jean,
That's not that uncommon. Lots of people config their newsreader so
that Google won't archive their posts. I'm not defending the guy or
anything, but it's not like he's doing anything unusual there.

You're right David. Blunder on his part.
--
Jean

[marc]

How do we know that the real John Hall posted that message? We don't know?
How do we know the original poster had a legitimate complaint with the
company ? We don't know?
How do we know that John Hall's allegations are true about the original
poster? We don't know?
Therefore, we have to conclude that this whole thread is a big waste of
time.
It's up to those two if they have just cause to settle their own problems in
a court of law. We don't have any of the facts. All we have is one man's
word and very little detail about what happened.

Post by Jean Zundel
Frankly, this is strange, and maybe more complicated than it seems.
1) A guy explains he is disgusted with RIC, apparently with good
reasons.
2) John Hall, CEO of said company, appears on the newsgroup for the
first time in aeons, only to point out the guy in question is a
white suprematist.
3) Nothing. Ok, mayhem ensues on the ng, but have you noticed that
none of the real protagonists have uttered a single word in
public since their first respective post?
It's interesting to note that even if you know how to use Google,
you won't find any link between a D. Daboll and this obnoxious
distribution company. But John Hall knew the link, and there was no
reply from his opponent. How did he know? Something has happened
not tell us.
--
Jean

[Jean Zundel]

Post by marc
How do we know that the real John Hall posted that message? We don't know?
How do we know the original poster had a legitimate complaint with the
company ? We don't know?
How do we know that John Hall's allegations are true about the original
poster? We don't know?

You're right, but we have hints. Same ISP as rickenbacker.com. The
answer was written in pure John Hall style (brevity, choice of words).
D. Daboll stayed shut after his first post when, if _I_ had been
called a racist, no lawyer in the world could have stopped me.

Post by marc
Therefore, we have to conclude that this whole thread is a big waste of
time.
It's up to those two if they have just cause to settle their own problems in
a court of law. We don't have any of the facts. All we have is one man's
word and very little detail about what happened.

Yes and no. Of course, it's mostly their business. On the other hand,
there's a possibility that someone tried to use these newsgroups to
play dirty tricks on RIC, it means using me, you, all the people reading
the groups. The probability would be, say, 1/2 for you, more for me due
to the aforementioned hints. I don't like the idea that someone would
possibly try to use me. That was the itch I wanted to scratch from the
moment I read the first posts.
--
Jean

[Yeppers]

Post by r***@nospam.net
Attention: All purchasers of Rickenbacker instruments who have been
defrauded of their warranty rights -- take note! You are not alone.
There is a growing number sharing your fate. Once we get enough
victims together, a class action suit or other litigation can be
initiated.
Until that time comes, warn all would-be purchasers of the danger.
Be sure to keep copies of all documents because they will become
invaluable later. Whenever you have a telephone conversation with a
representative of Rickenbacker, immediately write down what
transpired. If it is legal in your location to record telephone
conversations, that is even better.
When you finally realize that you are not going to get you instrument
repaired, write down everything that has transpired. Stick strictly to
the facts and use neutral words. Do not use profanity, or angry and
loaded language because they will only diminish your cause.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Rickenbacker/380-Laguna-PZ-01.html
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

I will give ya 50 for it....


Yeppers

[Karl Winkler]

Post by r***@nospam.net
Attention: All purchasers of Rickenbacker instruments who have been
defrauded of their warranty rights -- take note! You are not alone.
There is a growing number sharing your fate. Once we get enough
victims together, a class action suit or other litigation can be
initiated.
Until that time comes, warn all would-be purchasers of the danger.
Be sure to keep copies of all documents because they will become
invaluable later. Whenever you have a telephone conversation with a
representative of Rickenbacker, immediately write down what
transpired. If it is legal in your location to record telephone
conversations, that is even better.
When you finally realize that you are not going to get you instrument
repaired, write down everything that has transpired. Stick strictly to
the facts and use neutral words. Do not use profanity, or angry and
loaded language because they will only diminish your cause.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Rickenbacker/380-Laguna-PZ-01.html

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

I'm surprised they can get away with the "you didn't activate your
warranty" bull$#!+ thing. I'm not 100% certain about California law on
the subject, but my understanding is that you don't need to *register*
to get your warranty.

My guess is that in time, they will pay the price for this as soon as
enough people complain to the right parties.

Reminds me of the car insurance scam I went through in California of
all places, about 12 years ago. It always blows my mind when I realize
that some people and some companies actually plan to rip people off and
then are bold about facing you and telling you lies. Just incredible.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

[Cormorant]

I own two Rics, a 340-12 and a 370-6. I had some neck issues with the
six-string, and as I have written here before, Ric went above and
beyond the call of duty in honoring the warranty, and I now have a
perfect Ric. Over the years I've purchased various items from Ric
including toaster pickups, a twelve-string bridge, strings, and other
parts. Whenever I've had questions, the people in their service
department have always been helpful and courteous.

There are two sides to every story, and having read the original
poster's review on Harmony Central, I was left wondering what the other
side was. Maybe everything he says is true, or maybe he's leaving some
things out, possibly trying to cover up damage he did trying to adjust
or fix his Ric, and now trying to get it fixed under the warranty. I
don't know--only he does. I just wanted to put on the record that not
everyone has had a bad experience with Ric's warranty policy or service
department.

Post by Karl Winkler

Post by r***@nospam.net
Attention: All purchasers of Rickenbacker instruments who have been
defrauded of their warranty rights -- take note! You are not alone.
There is a growing number sharing your fate. Once we get enough
victims together, a class action suit or other litigation can be
initiated.
Until that time comes, warn all would-be purchasers of the danger.
Be sure to keep copies of all documents because they will become
invaluable later. Whenever you have a telephone conversation with a
representative of Rickenbacker, immediately write down what
transpired. If it is legal in your location to record telephone
conversations, that is even better.
When you finally realize that you are not going to get you

instrument

Post by Karl Winkler

Post by r***@nospam.net
repaired, write down everything that has transpired. Stick strictly

to

Post by r***@nospam.net
the facts and use neutral words. Do not use profanity, or angry and
loaded language because they will only diminish your cause.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Rickenbacker/380-Laguna-PZ-01.html

Post by Karl Winkler

Post by r***@nospam.net
I realized that many readers of this notice will be shocked and
angered. And I would have been right there with you until this
happened to me.

I'm surprised they can get away with the "you didn't activate your
warranty" bull$#!+ thing. I'm not 100% certain about California law on
the subject, but my understanding is that you don't need to

*register*

Post by Karl Winkler
to get your warranty.
My guess is that in time, they will pay the price for this as soon as
enough people complain to the right parties.
Reminds me of the car insurance scam I went through in California of
all places, about 12 years ago. It always blows my mind when I

realize

Post by Karl Winkler
that some people and some companies actually plan to rip people off and
then are bold about facing you and telling you lies. Just incredible.
Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

[Mister Tawny the Talking Tiger]

I do agree that we don't know the whole story of what has transpired.
But I do know the second opinion on these NG's turned on Ric, John Hall
made his racist comment (which I mantain has nothing to do with the
matter, a warranty is a warranty, period). Do we have any proof that
this guy is the one involved with that web site? Just an allegation,
and a sneaky one at that.

The facts are, anyone doing a google or yahoo or any other type of
search will turn up a lot of horror stories about the customer service
and about the Halls in general. It seems to be a pattern rather than an
aberration. That being said, it's in Ric's best interest to turn this
perception around and bend over backward and correct problems rather
than creating more.